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I keep stumbling across this quote from Sera Gamble regarding the decision to do...whatever it is she's going to do with Castiel:

""We have passionate fans," the executive producer told TV Line. "We have fans that have strong opinions about a lot of things that happen on the show."

She continued: "People ask me if I'm worried about a fan backlash. We just want to tell a good story and not be redundant and bring you interesting stories that are fresh. Going into season seven, we have a new, interesting story that we want to tell to you. That's what's front of mind right now."


Translation: "I'm the fucking showrunner, so these nutbag fans need to STFU about Castiel already. I'm sick of hearing about it. I made my decision and that's that. Me, the showrunner. Let them go write fanfic if they want more Castiel."

Subtext of Translation: "I had no idea what to do with Castiel anymore and his popularity was freaking me out. I can't write a story for three characters! I'm going to think about cowboys now! LALALALALALA!"

LMAO but seriously, folks, my favorite part of that quote is the jazz about not being "redundant." They've been telling (or trying to tell) the same "Sam goes darkside -- or does he?!" story for nearly five years, and now they're worried about being redundant? LOLOLOLOL I hate this woman.

God, the season's still three months away and I think I've already reached critical mass.

Date: 2011-06-14 02:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mangokulfi.livejournal.com
Dude I hear ya! The fact that she (or any of this TPTB) can say any of that with a straight face is utterly mind-boggling.

Date: 2011-06-14 02:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
I can't wait to see this "new interesting story." How many "new interesting stories" did she try to launch THIS season? And the only one that stuck WAS THE ONE ABOUT CASTIEL. Oh, LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Date: 2011-06-14 02:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mangokulfi.livejournal.com
Well maybe this time Eric "redundant" Kripke will actually pay attention to the "fresh" story from the beginning instead of rolling out of bed during the Christmas hiatus and then slashing his way through to the end of the season. Not that I have much faith in Kripke either. The level of incompetence these two boobs have exhibited over the last two seasons is really making me wonder who was really in charge during the first four.

PS sorry for the deletes. My brain is fried.

Date: 2011-06-14 02:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
The level of incompetence these two boobs have exhibited over the last two seasons is really making me wonder who was really in charge during the first four.

Clearly they had some sort of guardian angel who has long since winged his way back to heaven and is currently begging God to assign him to someone who isn't a jackass.

Either that or they only had enough ideas to last for four seasons.

Date: 2011-06-14 02:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mulder200.livejournal.com
Fresh and interesting? Yeah right! And did she really just imply that Castiel's storyline was redundant? As imposed to the borefest that Sam and Dean have become especially with Dean's domestic storyline?

Between that and and what Misha said (http://vasiliki.livejournal.com/324020.html), I am so done with this show!



Date: 2011-06-14 02:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Gosh, Misha's just letting it all hang out isn't he? He must be really pissed off. And it sounds like Mark Sheppard isn't pulling any punches either.

Date: 2011-06-14 03:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mangokulfi.livejournal.com
I do find it interesting that both Jensen and Misha have been so openly vocal (for this show anyway) about their dissatisfaction with the writing. Not that I think it's going to make any difference since it's pretty clear that Gamble is in a foot-stompy mood about fans not being the boss of her.

The other thing that occurs to me is that if what we saw on screen was so painfully mediocre, I have to wonder WTF actually got lost on the editing room floor. I would assume that what we got was the best of it all, which would actually explain J & M's chattiness. I mean, it really had to be bad to get either of them to yak since they all pride themselves on presenting the show has this big happy family, blah, blah, blah.

Date: 2011-06-15 12:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
All I know is that Jensen sounded nearly panic-stricken over where the show was going at the beginning of S6 -- and that's probably a cleaned-up version of what actually happened. If Gamble (in Jensen's own words) had to get on the phone to talk him off the metaphorical ledge, it must have been pretty bad.

Date: 2011-06-15 12:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mangokulfi.livejournal.com
Yeah, I cannot imagine how unhappy Jensen had to have been with the scripts to speak out. Also good for Misha for refusing to "calm the internet" and for Mark Sheppard to point out that he was brought back because of fan reaction and not because of any previous plan.

It does seem like at least some of the actors are doing whatever they can to get the show back on track and to save their characters from assassinated by bad writing literally and/or metaphorically.

Here is the thing though, if they are feeling the need to go public and encouraging the fans to write and post on certain boards, etc., then that suggests to me that TPTB are completely deaf to their concerns. Which, where Jensen is concerned especially, is utterly stupid because he knows Dean better than anyone and seems to have a better sense of the show as a hole the either Kripke or Gamble who can barely articulate what it is they are trying to do on a good day. Kripke's comments about Dean needing to learn to love Sam unconditionally from SDCC last year.

Date: 2011-06-15 01:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
I remember calling Kripke's "Swan Song" finale creatively "ungenerous." Gamble has elevated that lack of generosity to stubborn selfishness. I am sure that she is unreceptive to the actors' concerns -- they wouldn't be appealing to us if it were otherwise.

Date: 2011-06-14 07:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arabia764.livejournal.com
The think that gets me is I'm pretty sure she had no idea what she was going in season 6, let alone season 7.

S6 has just started on tv here and - especially when you know what happens in the end - it makes no sense. The pointless Campbells???

Date: 2011-06-15 12:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Exactly. The way S6 played out, it was pretty obvious she didn't know where she was going. Why on earth should we meekly accept her guarantees of great new stories this time around? She was promising the same shit last year at this time and look how that wound up.

Date: 2011-06-14 10:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ann-tara.livejournal.com
Please. If these people didn't write redundant story lines, they'd have no story lines at all.

Gee, what's going to be wrong with Sam this season? Oh, noooooes!!!!!!! Whatev.

I've come to the conclusion that Kim Manners was the real creative force, and when he died, so did the show for all intents and purposes.

Date: 2011-06-14 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oxer12.livejournal.com
I've come to the conclusion that Kim Manners was the real creative force, and when he died, so did the show for all intents and purposes.

I agree with this.

Why does Sera even stay with this show, given that she clearly hates the fans?

Date: 2011-06-15 12:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Why does Sera even stay with this show, given that she clearly hates the fans?

Because she thinks that she's right and we're wrong.

Date: 2011-06-15 12:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
I've come to the conclusion that Kim Manners was the real creative force, and when he died, so did the show for all intents and purposes.

You may have a point. Both Kripke and Gamble were relative TV newbies coming into SPN. I think Manners at least had enough experience that they no doubt looked up to him and respected his opinions. He may have kept them from running riot. There are no grownups in charge now.

Date: 2011-06-15 01:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kinkthatwinked.livejournal.com
Hm, your friend has a disturbingly good theory. I remember hearing somewhere that Manners begged Kripke not to exorcise Blond Meg in Season One's 'Devil's Trap.' But Kripke obviously went ahead, thus launching the grand tradition of offing every interesting female on the show. Who knows what other ideas Manners had, or could have had someday?

A tribute to his vision, in a way: here we are all these years later, and how many female characters are still out there breathing somewhere? Gamble's precious Lisa, the walking insult that is Becky ... and a resurrected Meg 2.0!

Date: 2011-06-15 02:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
To be fair, they've also offed some pretty uninteresting ones as well. I didn't shed any tears for Bela or Ruby.

There are actually several people who were involved with SPN's first two seasons who have long since moved on. Raelle Tucker, J. Miller Tobin and John Shiban are three that come to mind. Tucker's at True Blood, Tobin and Shiban are both working on The Vampire Diaries and Shiban was also producer for the highly acclaimed Breaking Bad. I know there's a lot of movement in this business, but it's kind of funny how many talented writers and producers SPN seems to have lost. Maybe they don't find it a terribly rewarding environment with people like Kripke and Gamble in charge.

Date: 2011-06-15 06:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghyste.livejournal.com
I've come to the conclusion that Kim Manners was the real creative force, and when he died, so did the show for all intents and purposes.

I suspect you’re right. S6 may have marked a speeding up in the decline of the show but the rot had set in long before.

Date: 2011-06-15 11:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
When did Manners die? Wasn't it early 2009, midway through Season 4?

Date: 2011-06-15 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghyste.livejournal.com
January 2009, though I presume his input to the show would have declined before that.

IMHOP the turning point in the show's mythos (as opposed to single episode blips) was "I Know What You Did Last Summer" which was aired in November 2008.

Date: 2011-06-15 09:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
A while ago I did a scene-by-scene analysis of that episode, in response to a comment that had set me off. Before I went through the episode that painstakingly, I honestly hadn't realized just how bad it was. I'm more of the belief in a long downward spiral as opposed to one identifiable turning point, but I do have to admit that the events of that episode dealt a horrible blow to Sam's character, and to the relationship between Sam and Dean, from which the show has never recovered.

Now that I think about it, I seem to recall that Manners was diagnosed with cancer sometime right after the Season 4 premiere aired in September 2008.

Date: 2011-06-16 04:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghyste.livejournal.com
Certainly there were some ominous signs before – the lack of forward planning to deal with the effect of the writers strike and bad preparation of new writers (see “Yellow Fever”) but up until IKWYDLS the damage that was being done to the core of the show, the brothers’ relationship, was still easily fixable. IKWYDLS was the point at which they could have done that and instead they took a sledgehammer to Sam’s personality. We’re still feeling the effects three years later – for example, think how differently we might have felt about the callousness of Souless Sam if we hadn’t seen ensouled Sam behave almost exactly the same of his own volition.

Date: 2011-06-16 04:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mangokulfi.livejournal.com
for example, think how differently we might have felt about the callousness of Souless Sam if we hadn’t seen ensouled Sam behave almost exactly the same of his own volition. In a nutshell, this is exactly why soulless Sam didn't have a hope in Hell of working. Especially considering the short shrift they gave to Sam actually acknowledging his douchiness in season 4.

Date: 2011-06-17 08:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghyste.livejournal.com
Sam never learns from anything and Dean is always being taught lessons about things we know he already knows :(

Date: 2011-06-16 02:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twirlycurls.livejournal.com
We’re still feeling the effects three years later – for example, think how differently we might have felt about the callousness of Souless Sam if we hadn’t seen ensouled Sam behave almost exactly the same of his own volition.

And that right there is the core of the problem with the Soulless Sam plot -- it was unworkable even before the writing inconsistencies and acting issues.

It's hilarious to hear these people saying they don't want to be redundant. HELLO. THAT's WHAT YOU DO.

Date: 2011-06-16 11:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
think how differently we might have felt about the callousness of Souless Sam if we hadn’t seen ensouled Sam behave almost exactly the same of his own volition.

That post I wrote about IKWYDLS was in the aftermath of "Dark Side of the Moon," where Sam and Dean went to Worst-Heaven-Ever, and I read comments about Sam's behavior in that episode that reminded me that Sam behaved there almost exactly the way he did when he didn't have a soul -- detached, indifferent and selfish, offering grudging apologies that were clearly unfelt.

It's sad that some of us (including me) were still hopeful enough back then to think that episode would mark a turning point for Sam since of course, never happened. It turned out to be just another one of those important-seeming episodes that existed in a vacuum and had no impact on anything that came afterwards. Why do they even bother writing episodes like that when they never mean a damn thing?

Date: 2011-06-17 08:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghyste.livejournal.com
The show is, alas, full of things that seem significant at the time and are never mentioned again. With respect to Dark Side of the Moon, the least they could have done was to have tied the fact that Mary couldn’t be found in Heaven to Samuel’s story and stopped him from looking quite so creepy.

Date: 2011-06-14 02:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] muffaletta.livejournal.com
Seriously, they really need to get someone who can at least pretend to like fans to act as the spokesperson. Sera's arrogant hostility towards us annoying ingrates is just about the worst PR possible.

And considering I giggled like a loon when I first read this interview, I agree so hard about the unintentional hilarity of the "redundant" comment. I mean, who is Sera kidding? Does she think we're all morons? The yearly "Is Sam going darkside?"/"Sam dun come back wrong"/"what's wrong with Sam this season?" theme has become a running joke among fans. Not to mention how Sera herself specifically billed S6 as this huge role reversal of S1, down to Dean's dream of Lisa burning on the ceiling (and the less said about Sam as the "new" Dean, the better.)

There was a time when the show actually did have some provocative, engaging writing but it's been awhile since I've seen it. The show's fallen into a creative rut, imo: at this point, it's pretty much following a predictable paint by numbers template. My predictions for S7..... Sam will be about Sam's neverending issues. Dean will be all about Sam's neverending issues. If Kripke's in charge, maybe Dean'll get to kill something. If Sera's in charge, Sam'll be shirtless and have sex a lot. Cas will eventually die because god forbid, anyone survive on this show besides the brothers and Bobby. End of season.

I'm hanging in there because of Jensen but lordy, they're not making it easy.


Date: 2011-06-15 12:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Re: Sera's arrogant hostility.

There was a great moment on last night's The Colbert Report where Stephen Colbert was mocking LeBron James's sore-loser putdown of fans. To quote:

"It's not whether you win or lose, but how you disparage the pathetic lives of the little people who make it possible for you to have a career bouncing an inflatable ball."

That's exactly how I feel about Sera's attitude problem. I know there are people out here who think she can do no wrong, but I'm getting pretty sick of her being up on her high horse. After reading Misha and Mark Sheppard's panel, it sounds like I'm not the only one getting sick of it. I don't know if she's really an egomaniac or if that's just defensive insecurity bleeding out, but whatever it is, she needs to grow the fuck up and attempt some professional demeanor. Telling the show's audience to suck it just proves how unsuited she was to this job.

Cas will eventually die because god forbid, anyone survive on this show besides the brothers and Bobby.

I wonder if things would be different if Cas had been Sera's own creation.
Edited Date: 2011-06-15 12:08 am (UTC)

Date: 2011-06-15 12:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Maybe they should make this guy the spokesperson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca6xht4msxw&feature=youtu.be

Date: 2011-06-19 03:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oxer12.livejournal.com
That is one of the coolest, sweetest things I have ever seen in fandom. What a class act. And yep, it did make me tear up a little.

Date: 2011-06-23 12:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
I know. Pure class.

Date: 2011-06-15 12:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mangokulfi.livejournal.com
Wow I almost got verklempt. Now that is someone who is thoughtful and articulate. Maybe they should give him a shot at running the show. It cannot honestly be any worse than Gambles's attempt.

Date: 2011-06-15 01:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
I DID get verklempt. I've gotten pretty used to being subtly and not-so-subtly dismissed by the people who create this show. It's very moving to have one of the actors not just thanking us for our engagement but actually encouraging us to keep it up, instead of fobbing us off with some patronizing lip-service about how "passionate" we are and then telling us to shut the fuck up and trust them to put on a great show.

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