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[personal profile] oselle
Man, the silence that greets each new ep of SPN here on LJ is really depressing. I just feel like people have totally given up. I'd go over to TWoP but those boards have always been boring as fuck with all their ban-happy bullshit rules about what you can and can't talk about.

But, like the rest of you, I don't seem to have anything to say. There just isn't anything to react to or discuss. I hadn't realized until Castiel was gone how much he'd held my interest for the past couple of seasons -- really, the last truly great episode (for me) was "The End" and that was a whopping two years ago. Got a lot of fic out of that one, anyway. But now it's just so blah. Dean continues to be pretty as ever but there's nothing to get worked up about. I want something to HAPPEN for God's sake, but the show really feels like it's run out of gas. Maybe seven years is just too long for a series like this.

The Vampire Diaries is kicking ass, but you know...that's only in it's third season. Four years from now, will there still be stories left to tell about Elena and Damon and Klaus etc.? Maybe genre shows like this simply don't have legs.

I wonder what SPN could have done to keep momentum. Letting Kripke basically end the show back in Season 5 was probably a shitty idea (ya think?). It might have helped to give good writers like Jeremy Carver a reaon to stick around, and they're not going to get much out of Ben Edlund now that they've more or less written out one of his favorite characters. And of course, the reins of the show should never have been handed over to Sera Gamble. I read that the show lost 25% of its audience by the end of Season 6. Those people have not come back. I think it's pretty safe to lay the blame for that at Gamble's feet.

Whatevs, I guess. It was a pretty good run there for a while. I became a fan in 2007 so that's...almost four years. Not bad.

I've got that displaced, "girl without a fandom" feeling, though. I hate that. I started a new job in August and I don't like it much and feel like I could use some distraction, but at the same time, I'm so tired that I don't think I could drum up the energy for fandom. Maybe that's part of the reason why I'm not into the show this year. Yesterday I didn't get home from work until almost 8:30. It was a shitty day and really, all I wanted to do was crawl into bed. I practically dozed off during the episode. On the weekends now, I stay in bed until almost 10:00 am -- I haven't done that in years. Everything is so shitty. You make a move like this thinking things are gonna get better and they just get worse. That's been the whole pattern of my life. Every time I try to make things better they get worse.

Everything sucks.

Date: 2011-10-15 07:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghyste.livejournal.com
Sorry to hear things are so glum :(

I've been trying to think of genre shows that I've carried on loving over multiple seasons and it's difficult - even the real greats like Buffy, The X-Files and Babylon 5 didn't manage it. I can't really count Dr Who because it reinvents itself every few years and has had stretches far worse than anything we've seen on SPN (Bonnie Langford, *shudders*), so I suppose the only one I can think of was Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Date: 2011-10-16 03:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Star Trek and Doctor Who are franchises more than they're series -- they can go on for decades because they just rotate in a new cast and start over. Though I have to admit that, having no previous history with Doctor Who, my attachment to it was almost wholly related to David Tennant, and I've lost most of my interest in the show since he left, even though the stories themselves do not seem to have suffered.

The thing about genre shows is that they all reach a point where they almost have to end because the audience can no longer suspend its disbelief. A character can only die and get resurrected so many times before the idea becomes a joke. Someone can only be believably caught up in an intricate conspiracy for so long without getting assasinated. Even a looming apocalypse becomes a bore when you can set your watch by it. It takes some really creative thinking to sustain the momentum on these shows, and SPN doesn't have it.

Date: 2011-10-16 06:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghyste.livejournal.com
I think one of the problems with genre shows is that once they become popular the writers start believing the hype and try to turn them into serious drama. Unfortunately they either misinterpret what serious drama is or just don't have the talent, and what we end up with is unrelenting angst and massively unlikeable characters. Some writing teams manage to get their heads out of their arses and repair things - for example Joss Whedon was too late to save Buffy but he did it with Angel - but I can't see it happening with Sera Gamble et al because, for all that the show has hemorrhaged viewers, I don't think they're capable of admitting that they're doing something wrong.

I though Dr Who was really good this year, but then I grew up with the Regenerations and so don't make the mistake of hitching my fannish star to a particular actor.

Date: 2011-10-16 09:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
the writers start believing the hype and try to turn them into serious drama.

I have no problem with serious drama. As you know, I've always thought SPN suffered from not taking itself seriously enough. The Walking Dead is a stellar example of a genre show that also manages to be compelling, serious drama.

But agree that angst-for-angst's-sake is not a substitute for good writing. It reminds me of when so many people in LoTR fandom started trying to write "serious" stories and just wound up writing a lot of silly stuff about Frodo getting beaten by his uncle or molested by his cousins.

Date: 2011-10-15 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kinkthatwinked.livejournal.com
Well, I can hardly form an argument against giving up on SPN. I find myself feeling more anticipation toward watching the old seasons on DVD than catching the new episodes. I haven’t even purchased the sixth season, and doubt I ever will.

It is at times like this that I fall back on the fiction. I find some archive website and spend a little time basking in what once made Dean & Sam great. And if it has gotten to the point where those stories give me more entertainment than the show that inspired them, well it won’t be the first time a fandom has come to that.

All I can say is hold on till tomorrow night for some zombie apocalypse action, you know? Remember the other great shows out there.

Sorry that RL isn't helping, either.

Date: 2011-10-16 03:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Remember the other great shows out there.

I know, but they're all just flings. This was my true love. My awful, abusive, disappointing, "I can't quit you" true love.

Still looking forward to the zombie apocalypse action, though. Oh yes.

Date: 2011-10-15 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mangokulfi.livejournal.com
It sucks when real life sucks and your frivilous escape no longer does anything for you either. I am sorry that you are feeling so bad right now. *hugs*

As for SPN, I am finally caught up on the season but it really isn't doing it for me. I don't know if it's the loss of Dean/Cas or just that Dean is so friggin' depressed that there is no longer any fun to be had on the show, but the whole thing is just a downer to watch now. If I want depressed and unhappy, I will stick real life, thanks.

On a positive note, Misha and Jensen a stupidly beautiful in person and I discovered that I can still get all fangirly about them even if their show is a blackhole of joyless suck these days.

Date: 2011-10-16 03:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
the whole thing is just a downer to watch now.

It's not even a good, angsty sort of downer, as in it's bleak or searing or whatever. It's just stuck in the mud, and Sera Gamble clearly doesn't have what it takes to reboot it.

Date: 2011-10-15 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twirlycurls.livejournal.com
I watched it. I wasn't planning to do so but for some reason (aka Jensen's pretty face) I can't quite cut this show loose yet. I thought the first 12 minutes or so had real promise: boys on the road! Hunting something! Crappy motel room and rock salt and so forth. Then we met our bad guy and it was...

Oh fuck me, another GOD.

And one of the Gods who yack, yack, yack at us. Seriously, I'd rather they just get straight to the smiting, you know? I have zero interest and blah-blah-blah about Brotherly Angst and so on. It's all so played out.

"the last truly great episode (for me) was "The End" and that was a whopping two years ago."

Same here. Same for a lot of us, I'd wager.

Date: 2011-10-16 03:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
And one of the Gods who yack, yack, yack at us.

I seriously do not understand this show's obsession with pagan deities who all seem bent on some sort of mischief or vengeance or cannibalism. These writers have drained that Neil Gaiman well bone dry -- it's time for them to find some new material to rip off.

Date: 2011-10-16 12:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caoil.livejournal.com
Eeek. Did I miss a previous post about you getting a new job? I must have. I wasn't very good about checking LJ for a while there.

I know how you feel about the better/worse thing, though. Whenever I'm faced with something that's even vaguely a choice, I know without a doubt that whichever of the options I pick, it will be the wrong one. Even if I could go back like one of those choose your own adventure books and pick the other option, it too will turn out to be wrong. So, I hear you.

Date: 2011-10-16 03:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
No, I didn't post about getting a new job. This is the first time I've mentioned it.

Even if I could go back like one of those choose your own adventure books and pick the other option, it too will turn out to be wrong.

I actually HAVE gone back and picked the other option, no adventure book needed. Three years ago, I got a new job, spent a few weeks there, and then walked away from it to go back to my old one -- and beat myself up for the next three years, as my pay was cut, my benefits became more and more expensive, and the entire atmosphere of the place flatlined. So many times I was so angry at myself for not sticking with that other job, and I felt like I had dead-ended myself. When this new opportunity came along, I felt like I finally had the chance to correct that mistake, and now I remember why I made that "mistake" in the first place. It's just adding to my stress, this feeling like I really can't fuck this up again...but it really is rock and a hard place. If I had turned this opportunity down and chosen to stay where I was, I know that I'd absolutely be tormenting myself over it now. So I didn't turn it down, and I'm tormented by extreme stress and by how much I hate this new job.

Date: 2011-10-16 12:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ann-tara.livejournal.com
...really, the last truly great episode (for me) was "The End" and that was a whopping two years ago.

It's ironic how the name of that particular episode signified more than what happened within the ep - it signified the literal end of creativity and solid story-telling. I now believe the show should have ended with season five, because then maybe the original finale would have played out, and not the bastardized version that was more a prelude to Gamble's impending vision (or lack thereof) for season sux that we got insttead. And maybe Kripke would have stayed interested and engaged if he had known there really would be no more after season five.

I'm not watching live, and frankly not really watching later as much as FF'ing. Took me two weeks to watch the first couple of episodes, I don't even remember when I FF'd through last week's, and this week's is sitting on the dvr. I'm not inspired to give it a go.

I miss when I used to love the show, and don't like that I'm just hanging around it now solely to catch a glimpse of Jensen Ackles. I miss the Dean/Cas relationship, I hate the craptacular exit for Cas, and nothing I've seen and nothing I hear isn't anything that hasn't been done before, countless times.

I'm kind floundering too WRT fandom. Don't get me wrong, I watch a lot of other stuff, and almost all of it is wildly better than SPN. But I'm not fannish about anything else, really. I'm waiting and wanting the next thing that's going to make me all giddy again.

Sorry that RL is sucking for you right now. :(

Date: 2011-10-16 02:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Was it you who asked or predicted or wished that Season 6 would just be End-Verse? I keep thinking about how much more awesome that would have been.

I never thought of it that way, but you're right -- it was pretty much the last original thing the show did.

I recently received S5 as a gift and I laughed when I saw that so much of the artwork on the packaging displayed scenes from "The End" (only with Dean and Sam, not Dean and Cas) as if the whole season really did revolve around that post-apocalyptic storyline. It's hilariously misleading -- you've got Dean there in Croatan Kansas City with a fierce, gun-toting Sam now photoshopped in next to him. It sure looks as if someone (besides those of us in fandom) agreed that "The End" was the best thing about the season -- enough to try and make it look as if that was what the show was about. Like I said, misleading, but also very telling.

I watch a lot of other stuff, and almost all of it is wildly better than SPN. But I'm not fannish about anything else, really.

The one thing I've learned about fandom is that the chemistry of it is identical to falling in love -- you can't MAKE it happen. It's something that hits you all at once -- either at first sight, or suddenly when you least expect it. Lord of the Rings was love at first sight for me; with SPN, it took me two years of apathetic, sporadic viewership and then it just hit me like a ton of bricks during a Season 2 summer rerun. I still remember the episode, it was "Folsom Prison Blues." And I still remember the exact moment, it was when Dean got billyclubbed in the guts during that prison cafeteria brawl. Head over heels, from that instant -- didn't ask for it, didn't make it happen, never saw it coming. I find it hard to believe that anything's going to hit me that way again.

Date: 2011-10-16 12:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pedx.livejournal.com
I started watching this show when I left Florida and moved to Texas and it meant a lot to me over the years, but while I've downloaded the latest episodes I haven't bothered to watch them. I guess I realize that it's probably not going to be very good OR interesting so eventually I guess I'll get around to it.

Was it you who asked or predicted or wished that Season 6 would just be End-Verse? I keep thinking about how much more awesome that would have been.

Sera Gamble's episodes and now her ... direction, or whatever ... have made the show feel gratuitous in embarrasing ways, cheap, and lazy.

Date: 2011-10-16 02:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Was it you who asked or predicted or wished that Season 6 would just be End-Verse? I keep thinking about how much more awesome that would have been.

I wished for it, and for a while during S5, I actually thought they'd stun us all by going that way, and then they didn't. Truth is, it would have been a huge risk for them, taking the show in a whole new direction from its original premise. They probably would have lost a lot of viewers, and they'd never have had the budget to sustain that sort of story. But it certainly would have given them some new ground to cover instead of treading over the same one over and over again.


Date: 2011-10-16 03:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gigi314.livejournal.com
When RL is in the crapper, I turn to "Endverse" as my getaway. I wish I could return the favor and create a verse you could escape to. Funny enough, I have recently had to spend many a day at a place that has the perfect view of Michigan Central. I gotta say at sunrise, seeing the light glow though all of the blown out windows was very eerie and beautiful. Every time I look at it, I think of Cas and Dean and your compelling story ...not the decaying building. (Rumor has it here in the D, the building is set to be renovated by the guy that owns the Ambassador bridge to Canada.)
Personally I think they ditched Cas because Misha is a much better actor than Jared, and people were drawn to the incredible chemistry between Jensen and Misha.
Cas was Misha's creation, just as Dean is Jensen's.
Don't get me wrong, I like JP as a person, as an actor, not so much. He is not the level of Jensen, and once Misha came on board it was woefully obvious JP was the weak link.
Mischa deserves a spinoff. Talent should be rewarded not pushed off to protect the mediocre.
You should think of your current situation that way. You spinoff is around the corner. You are far too talented to be in a sucky situation for long.
Hang in there.

Date: 2011-10-16 03:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Remember the other great shows out there.

When I can't sleep (which is often, these days) I try to offset my stress by focusing on a little Endverse myself. Just because I'm not writing it, doesn't mean I've stopped daydreaming about it.

I gotta say at sunrise, seeing the light glow though all of the blown out windows was very eerie and beautiful.

I can believe that, but I'm still not sure I'd want to begin my day with a view of Michigan Central. That place was creepy as fuck, both from a distance and up close, and everything around it really did look like the apocalypse had come and gone. Brrr.

Personally I think they ditched Cas because Misha is a much better actor than Jared, and people were drawn to the incredible chemistry between Jensen and Misha.

I think the writers and producers (with the exception of Ben Edlund) really were not happy with Castiel's position on the show. But they're the ones who created that situation -- they destroyed Dean's relationship with Sam and introduced Castiel in the same season, so it's not surprising that so many viewers got attached to him, especially when he seemed to be the only character on the show who had any regard for Dean. Sam got more and more shunted off to the side, and I agree with you that Jared's weaker presence as an actor did not help.

You should think of your current situation that way.

Actually, that's exactly how I'm thinking of it. I'm already trying to lay the groundwork that will allow me to leave, hopefully within a year or less. That is, assuming they don't let me go first. I'm good at what I do but I'm really not a good fit with that company's culture and especially not with that particular team or workstyle. And I'm clearly not alone in that thinking -- of the three people who held this job before me, only one stuck it out for more than a year. My immediate predecessor only stayed for four months. It's so unfair that the employer gets to do a background check on you before offering the position, but you don't get to do a background check on them before accepting.

Date: 2011-10-16 04:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] merylmarie.livejournal.com
I was surprised to hear you're at a new job and sorry it's so stressful. Still, it's movement, and movement can be a good thing in the larger scheme of things. That's what I'm telling myself now that City Opera is a shadow of its former self. I'll either have only a smidgeon of work next year or none. Time to re-invent myself somehow. Good luck to us both!

Date: 2011-10-16 06:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Yes, I've been hearing about what's going on at City Opera. Have you been officially evicted from Lincoln Center yet? You're fortunate to have had the chance to do something you really love, and I just hope that City Opera will either be saved or that you'll find a new, exciting opportunity soon!

Date: 2011-10-17 03:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] merylmarie.livejournal.com
Thanks, I hope for both things--saving City Opera and finding something new. In recent years I'd become complacent and not looked for other work, so being forced to get energized will hopefully have its upside.

We're supposed to be moved out of our offices by the end of December. It'll be hard to get used to not having the run of the opera house or having my Lincoln Center ID to get discounts and passageway into the Met cafeteria. Dammit all!

Date: 2011-10-17 11:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Well, if you're suffering from corporate cafeteria withdrawal, you can come to mine. It's one of the few bright spots of this new job. Last week they had not one but TWO kinds of macaroni and cheese! Today, they had a falafel bar!

Date: 2011-10-16 01:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oxer12.livejournal.com
I always feel kind of weird leaving *hugs* as a comment, but it sounds like you could use one. So here you go. :)

I'm hanging in there with the show, even though it's just kind of sad at this point. I re-watched the earlier seasons some time ago and was shocked at the difference in quality. It was just SO much better in seasons 1-3.

Unrelated question: what happened to Dean's leather jacket? Did the show lose it or something?

Edit: I will admit, I'm super excited about next week, because my lover, James Marsters, will be guest-starring. ;) I would watch him sit motionless on a stool for 8 hours. I love him like burning.
Edited Date: 2011-10-16 01:11 pm (UTC)

Date: 2011-10-16 06:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
Thanks for the hugs :)

Someone mentioned a while back what happened to Dean's leather jacket but now I can't remember. The last I recall, he was packing it up to send it to Sam when he was planning to turn himself over to Michael.

I'm not a James Marsters or Charisma Carpenter fan, and my experience with SPN is that they tend to consider this sort of stunt casting as an excuse for not really writing an episode. Like we're just supposed to enjoy it because Spike and Cordelia are in it -- no story needed.

Date: 2011-10-17 10:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] salty-catfish.livejournal.com
Making a montage of Most Moving Moments is such a syndrome for a show in decline. :( Sorry to hear your job is so draining!

Date: 2011-10-17 11:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
You have a point there about the Moving Moments Montage.

Date: 2011-10-19 02:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodger-sister.livejournal.com
I'm sorry the new job is sucking your life from you so hard, babe. Life is ass, isn't it?

I've had the urge to write in some older fandoms - Firefly and oddly, The Faculty. Perhaps you should revisit old loves.

Or, idk, pick up a TV show that lasted two years and has been canceled forever now and maybe write an epic prequel. No, my sister doesn't walk around the house while she is on the phone so that everyone can hear her - why do you ask?

Date: 2011-10-23 04:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
I have not yet taken up your sister's offer to write the great Alec pre-series epic that she wants, but I HAVE been revisiting my entire Dean/Cas series and DAMN I'm good.

Date: 2011-10-24 04:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dodger-sister.livejournal.com
but I HAVE been revisiting my entire Dean/Cas series and DAMN I'm good.

This IS true. ;)

Just FYI, and I know you know this because you've met her and stuff, but J is never going to let the Manticore Project go until you write it. She keeps bringing it up.

Date: 2011-10-25 12:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oselle.livejournal.com
I just don't know when I'll find time or energy for The Manticore Project. Maybe when I begin my brilliant freelance career.

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