Misogyny

[oselle]

One of the fun things that happened in current events last week was that President Bush went to Israel and made a speech that included references to "appeasers," suggesting that Democrats are appeasers of Iran in the way that guys like Neville Chamberlain were of Hitler in the 1930s.

Following that, Chris Matthews had right-wing talkshow host Kevin James on his MSNBC show, Hardball. Matthews is often an asshole, but this time he brilliantly hammered James with questions about why, exactly, Chamberlain had been an appeaser. James just sat there shouting "appeaser!" and "appeasement!" though he obviously had no idea of what those words meant or what Chamberlain had done to deserve being labeled with them. You can read a transcript or watch the whole glorious thing here.

The other fun thing that happened last week in the world of entertainment was the season finale of Supernatural. Suddenly, I seemed to be hearing another buzzword an awful lot -- "misogyny." And I noticed a similar pattern to what happened with Kevin James on Hardball -- people using the word though they seemed to have at best a superficial idea of what it meant and what Dean Winchester had done to be labeled with it.

This isn't going to be a So Dean's a misogynist, suck it up! post. It's not going to be a You don't like it, stop watching! post. And it isn't going to be a Dean's got issues, so forgive him! post. I just think people should know what they're talking about. If they're going to use a word, they should know what it means. And they should be able to provide solid examples of why they're using it.

First some definitions:

Misogyny: The hatred, dislike or mistrust of women.

Misogynist: One who hates women

Now some examples of misogyny in action, conveniently chosen from my own experience:

I was rushing down some subway stairs and got in front of a guy next to me. "Stupid bitch!" he snapped. That is misogyny. He knew nothing about me at all, but chose to label me as a bitch.

I was walking down Seventh Avenue a few months ago and a man spat in my face. It was not an accident. That guy was such a misogynist that he has to go around spitting in random women's faces.

I could go on and on with these examples but they're all too bleak. You get the picture. This is what real misogyny looks and sounds like.

I do not think Supernatural is a misogynistic show and I don't think the character of Dean Winchester can in any way be labeled a misogynist (nor is Sam a misogynist-in-training). At worst, the show comes across as sexist because the writers seem unable or unwilling to create a decent recurring female character. They had Ellen and they didn't know what to do with her, and even if they did, the middle-aged woman who makes decisions over at that network would probably have nixed the idea of giving another middle-aged woman a regular role on the show. That's sexist and ageist, but it's still not really misogynistic. It points more to ignorance and some really lousy focus groups than actual hatred.

Okay, so let's talk about the two female characters we actually did see this season, plus the one we sort of saw there at the end: Ruby, Bela and Lilith. I'm arguing that the writers' characterization of these women, however lamely done, was not misogynistic, and that Dean's behavior towards them was not, either. Please keep in mind throughout what misogyny means: hatred of women. Women as a group.


Ruby
Maybe Ruby was a woman once, but now she's just a demon in female form. If you have issues with that form, take them up with Dawn Ostroff, who mandated hot girls on the show.

For me, Ruby's non-humanity pretty much cancels out any accusation of misogyny. Dean doesn't generally label human women as bitches, skanks or sluts. He doesn't go around slugging them in the face for no reason. He doesn't see all women as bitches by default. If you disagree, please feel free to give me an example.

Ruby's a demon. She is, by her own admission, a manipulative liar. Neither Dean nor Sam has ever known what side she's playing. She left them, and a number of innocent people, to die in Colorado, all because Dean wouldn't let her rip some girl's heart out of her chest. Worst of all, Dean believes Ruby is going to lead Sam down the road to perdition or to his death. He has plenty of reasons to find Ruby loathsome.

With all these reasons, is it still out of line for him to call her a bitch? I don't think so. She's a horrible creature who appears female. It would look pretty ridiculous if he called her an SOB or a prick. Are there any good terms of contempt that he could use that are not gender-based? All I can think of is "fucker" and you can't say that on network.

Dean punched Ruby in the face this week. Was this misogynistic? Well yes, it would appear so...to someone who'd never watched a single episode of this season. And who was watching with the sound off. All you would see was some strapping guy socking it to a little blonde. Taken out of context, it's an ugly sight. But in context?

By that point, as I've said, Dean had plenty of reasons to hate Ruby. What pitched him over the edge into physical violence was the threat he believed she posed to Sam at that moment. He was clearly exhausted, he had one day left to live, and he'd had it with her lies and bullshit. Should he have held back because she's a girl? That question is moot because she's NOT a girl. Dean wasn't beating up on some poor girl there. He was lashing out at a demon, a demon who had lied to them, left them to die and was using his brother for her own hidden and highly suspect reasons. He also knows damn well that she's his equal in strength, so you can't even accuse him of pummeling someone weaker than he is. She was, in fact, more than his match -- if not for the Devil's Trap, she would have kicked the living shit out of Dean. It was barely even a fair fight and he walked away from it looking a lot worse than she did.

I can see the point that the very imagery of a man abusing any woman (either physically or verbally) looks misogynistic, regardless of context. Tell it to Dawn Ostroff. She's the reason they wrote Sam's demonic mentor as a cute blonde. But saying that Dean is a misogynist because of this behavior is nonsense. There is no proper example to back up the claim. Dean didn't hit Ruby or call her a bitch because he hates women. He hates this demon, this inhuman thing who happens to be in some unfortunate girl's skin. His behavior, within context, was justifiable. His treatment of Ruby is no more misogynistic than shooting a Hellhound would be animal cruelty.

I also call nonsense on the idea that Dean's treatment of Ruby is some new, ugly behavior particular to this season. Dean socked it to Meg way back in Season One -- and that while she was tied up and defenseless. He then proceeded with an exorcism that he knew was going to kill her, even after she had confessed what she knew about John's whereabouts. He continued to press a dying girl (a real girl, by then) for information after the demon had left her body. I wasn't in the fandom back then. Were people crying foul over that scene? I would assume not, since I keep hearing that Dean's "misogyny" is new and the "old" noble, heroic Dean would never have acted this way. Baloney. He was acting this way three seasons ago. It wasn't misogyny then, and it isn't now.

Bela
Gah, poor Bela. What a hot mess of an episode-slaughtering character.

Dean often called Bela a bitch. But she wasn't a demon, so wasn't he being misogynistic?

Only if you consider any use of the word misogynistic. I know some people do, and that's their prerogative. Many people do not, and I'm one of them. I called my downstairs neighbor a bitch for years and that was just because she refused to lower her television all night. Now, if she had also ripped me off, impounded my car, shot my brother, had me arrested and stolen the one thing with which I hoped to save my own life, I would have called her a lot more than bitch. I would have called her all sorts of things you can't say on network.

In truth, both of the Winchesters put up with Bela's disgusting behavior for a long time, far longer than they would ever have tolerated similar treatment from a male adversary. This, of course, was because her character was written with romantic possibilities in mind. The efforts to drum up sexual tension, especially between Bela and Dean, were painfully obvious. All the way up through "Dream A Little Dream" there was a deliberate flirtiness to almost all of her dealings with the Winchesters.

That's why Dean's "don't flatter yourself" comment in "Time Is On My Side" didn't offend me -- it was Bela herself who had always pushed the sexual charge between the two of them. I want to be VERY CLEAR that I AM NOT SAYING that Bela "deserved" to be raped because of this. I am saying that I did not pick up on any implication of rape in that scene.

Dean was patting Bela down for the Colt, that's all he was doing. Her sudden moment of Victorian vapors struck me as Bela trying to put Dean off his guard. She was using a less playful version of the sexual banter that had successfully (and implausibly) flustered him in the past. In this context, Dean was right to say she was just flattering herself. She was not so irresistible and Dean is not so helplessly horny that he was suddenly distracted by how hot she was.

Now, if the writers deliberately wanted to put the idea of rape into the scene, if they meant for us to think that Bela seriously believed Dean was going to assault her, then that offends me. It's a cheap, inexcusable way to rouse some sympathy for Bela. Crying rape, or even suggesting it, to get us to feel sorry for Bela is lazy and offensive. Bad enough they used child molestation to do just that.

In the end, what matters to me about this scene is that Dean had the chance to kill her and he didn't. Here's this supposed misogynist (remember, that's someone who hates women in general) faced with a truly contemptible woman, a woman who has done everything to deserve his hatred, and he...does nothing. He hardly lays a hand on her. He chooses mercy over vengeance and over his own safety. If that's misogyny, then someone needs to revise the definition.

Lilith
I think it was terribly stupid to name Sam's big adversary Lilith. As I've said in other posts, that name has a long and very ugly association in Jewish, Christian and Islamic lore. Lilith is literally the demonization of female sexuality and therefore represents a general fear and hatred of women -- this is misogyny, the real thing. Naming her Lilith is about as stupid as it would be to have a black character named Sambo or a Jewish character named Shylock. I'll bet the writers felt terribly clever when they came up with this, but as Spinal Tap said so succinctly, "there's a fine line between clever and stupid." And I know which side of the line this nonsense is on.

I have no idea why they wanted the Big Bad from the West to be female. I suppose they thought it would make things more interesting. There may also be a practical need for this -- the need to keep another cute, female regular on the show. Really, I don't even know what to say about this. All I know is now we're going to have to endure a lot of complaining about Sam calling Lilith a bitch next year. Sigh. Perhaps dear Sam, freed from his brother's crude influence, can find a more politically correct term for the Hell-spawned beast that presumably wants to turn the world into a lake of fire and enslave all mankind -- and womankind -- under its infernal rule.


Is Supernatural misogynist? I don't think so. It just happens to be a show without a lot of room for women. This was evident from the very beginning. It's not an ensemble piece. It's a buddy show, a road show. Two guys and their car.

When the show tries to insert women into this formula, they come off as cartoonish and one-dimensional -- and in my opinion, this has been true of almost all the women on the show, including the one-shots and going all the way back to Season One.

Network demands don't help with this situation. Even if the writers wanted to add an interesting, multi-dimensional female character, the network that brings us such highbrow fare as Girlicious probably wouldn't let them. They want babes, potential love interests. Anything else is a waste of budget. And once they start off with the love interest idea, they're already lost. That's why Jo fell so flat. They were trying to pair her up with Dean from the very first episode she was in. They didn't give that character any room to grow, so once the romantic setup didn't work out, they couldn't think of anything for poor Jo to do. Buh-bye, Jo.

When the love interests don't stick, I think the show tries to take a different tack, creating female adversaries. But that automatically means these women are bound to wind up as "bitches." They don't have anything to do except be bitches. That's not misogyny, it's just a byproduct of uninspired character development.

If lame, poorly drawn attempts at female characters are the best the show can do, I'd prefer not to have women on at all. It makes for a mess that comes off as offensive to some viewers. It sets off a lot of breathless (and incorrectly applied) pontificating about misogyny every time Dean doesn't treat some demon or sociopathic murderer like a lady. It turns people off the show. Two guys and their car is a pretty good formula for me. I'd be happy to leave it at that.

But those of you out there who want to see better female characters on the show, especially if you're planning some sort of petition or letter writing to the network? Do it right. Don't make yourselves look like Kevin James on Hardball. Don't just sit there and holler about misogyny if you don't know what it means or can't back up the claim. Don't embarrass the show's fans by making some poor PA or intern sift through ridiculous missives about how Dean Winchester hates women because he called a demon a bitch. Write to Dawn Ostroff. Tell her enough with the babes. Tell her to schedule another goddamn focus group without teenage boys in it. Write to Eric Kripke. Tell him to get that writer's room in shape. To stop using half-assed sexual tension as a stand-in for good plot development. To bring Ellen back.

That's all I have to say. If you've got something to say, knock yourselves out.

Comments

[layne67.livejournal.com]

\o/

Now that's one super-intelligent answer to all that BS that's has been going on.

*fangirls you like crazy*

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I cannot believe how out of control this whole thing has gotten.

[tj-smartz.livejournal.com]

Thank you for voicing so succintly what so many of us have been thinking.

*fangirls you with layne67*

[partners4life.livejournal.com]

This post is made of epic win. Intelligent, concise and no wank in sight.

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

[redacted because wank-inducing rage had subsided]

Is it perfect? Of course not. And people who think Buffy was the be all and end all of feminist genre television have another thing coming (not that I've seen any such comparisons this time around, but such claims have been made in times past).

It's a shame that Bela's characterization really suffered because Dawn Ostroff insisted on the addition of another female character this season. Using her more than once or twice this season was too much, by anyone's standards. And Ruby's suffered because Katie Cassidy is not, in fact, a very good actress at all. The opportunities that woman missed for adding depth to that character make me weep.

But here's some hopefully good news. The rumor going around the industry is that Dawn Ostroff is going to lose her job this season. And at the LA Con Kripke said that Ellen was in the season finale until Samantha Ferris was unable to film it, for whatever reason. This was confirmed by Ms. Ferris at Eyecon.

But this wank will go on, as it always does. There are people who have very strong opinions and they will continue to say things that make me feel like the worst woman-hating woman to ever appear on the planet. And then, while I'm gnashing me teeth, they'll pat me on the head and patronize me.

I'm beginning to think that when Dean went to Hell he took the lot of us with him. Who was it who said other people are hell? Cause I'm thinking he/she/it was on the right track.

[vshendria.livejournal.com]

WORD.
I agree with everything you say, and since I can't reply to all of it, I'll just pick one thing.

It does seem like some SPN fans want Dean (and Sam, and every man on television) to treat a woman character like a lady. And you know what? I so much prefer bitches to ladies. I think the very idea of a lady is offensive, because the underlying presumption is that she is helpless, that she needs a man's help and protection.

I agree, their introduction of the Lilith character is troubling, but I think that we then have to introduce issues of genre. Horror is a genre that is constantly playing with essentialized images of male and female. And yeah, it can be read as misogynist, but sometimes it can also be liberating. Which of those it turns out to be depends on the quality of the writing.

[munibunny.livejournal.com]

Once again, you are Made Of Win!

Thanks for taking the time for such a well thought out response.

[qzxy.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU.

I was beginning to wonder if my inability to agree with these arguments was evidence that I unconsciously hated my own gender. Thank you for articulating this.

[eken95.livejournal.com]

I'm obviously not on any comms where this is happening,could you point me in the right direction please.

[ghyste.livejournal.com]

Nicely summarised. Yes, I do have issues with the treatment of women in the show, but it’s not what’s coming out of Dean’s mouth that’s the problem.

I find it interesting from the various discussions going around that so many of the same people who are up in arms about the non-PC language of a fictional character are also quick to dismiss any real woman who expresses dislike for the show's propensity to construct badly written two-dimensional female characters as a jealous fangirl. I’m also surprised that the one thing I did find offensive this season – the idea that it’s amusing that an independent single mother would have brought up an 8 year-old to regard his female contemporaries as sex objects – seems to be being given a free pass by our crusaders.

Edited to add that I was also bothered by the portrayal of Gert but again, presumably because the blame can't be placed on Dean, she's largely being ignored.

[eken95.livejournal.com]

"Ruby's a demon. She is, by her own admission, a manipulative liar. Neither Dean nor Sam has ever known what side she's playing. She left them, and a number of innocent people, to die in Colorado, all because Dean wouldn't let her rip some girl's heart out of her chest. Worst of all, Dean believes Ruby is going to lead Sam down the road to perdition or to his death. He has plenty of reasons to find Ruby loathsome."

I utterly agree with what you have said except the Lilith bit as I don't know enough to comment. As to Ruby I think she is living proof of 'and this is what you will become' and as such has become the focus of his fear and loathing. He doesn't want to believe that humans can turn into demons and he certainly doesn't want to believe that he can. I think he also fears that Sam has a growing connection to Ruby and that she could undo all he and John taught him and also that she could replace Dean in Sam's life. His fear for Sam, his brother who he loves uncondtionally and possible anger with himself for bringing Sam back to potentially go darkside can't be focussed on Sam but it can and is focussed on Ruby.

The antagonistic tone of their relationship was set the first time they met when Ruby dismissed Dean as unimportant and worse tried to establish her relationship with Sam and devalue the relationship of brother. For Dean this alone would be would be enough to hate her with a passion, it strikes at the very core of who he is and what he is.

For people to label Dean as misogynist ignores any of the context and has no worth I believe. Hmm didn't intend to write all that, rushes off to shower and work!

[euphory.livejournal.com]

well said.
i feel in television in general, especially in WB/CW, female characters have been poor written. They are either just the babe (SPN's hot chick of the week), or some bitch (Meg, Bela), or saintly victims (Mary, Jess and Madison to a less degree), or a Mary Sue that no human being can stand (RUBY!)
for example, i genuinely liked lana from Smallville in the early seasons. she's the pretty girl with a personality. Then they had to butch her character and make her into this super babe with no personality that causes havoc for men.
i want Ellen back too. Jo had potential. Meg was actually pretty interesting. Ruby would be better if the actress knows how to act and not busy in heavy make-up and Barbie hair...

[hiyacynth.livejournal.com]

See, this is the kind of week where I'm glad my LJ time has been cut to almost nothing. Because I'm getting all of the reasonable, well-thought reaction to the wank rather than the wank itself.

Nicely said. Oh, and also? Hell, yeah.

[goth-clark.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I completely agree with you. People seem to forget that Dean has shown respect for women plenty of times on the show. Ruby and Bela being female had nothing to do with why he hated them. I would hate anybody who shot my sibling.

[ahestele.livejournal.com]

Preach, woman, preach.

Thank you for what you said and the succint way you said it.

[ixchel55.livejournal.com]

This is totally made of win - logical and to the point. Thank you.

I will add that in my opinion, Dean didn't hit Ruby simply because he was pissed at her (no matter that she's more than capable of not only handling herself, but of handing Dean's ass to him if he hadn't set the Devil's Trap), he hit her for the very specific reason of pulling her into a physical fight so that he could take the knife from her.

[el1ie.livejournal.com]

I've been flipping around reading posts all afternoon and this is the first one I've come across where I want to stand up and applaud.

One other thing I would add to all this is the willingness in a lot of places in the fandom to label Dean a "Man-Whore" or "Man-Slut" in absolute glee. Some of the same places that are now howling over his use of the word "whore" and "slut" - frankly the double standard in parts of this fandom completely floors me.

I honestly hadn't even heard about the Bela and "rape" thing, so that was really interesting, mind you I haven't really heard anything about the on-going season long "rape" by a demon of the pretty blonde girl meat-suit either (still not sure if Ruby is the girl or the demon) and the list of fics that have either Sam or Dean sleeping with Ruby and not even mentioning the "rape" or "non-consent" label is a mile long and I've never heard a murmer about that either.

Season Finale Fever perhaps?

[pinkfinity.livejournal.com]

I can see the point that the very imagery of a man abusing any woman (either physically or verbally) looks misogynistic, regardless of context. Tell it to Dawn Ostroff. She's the reason they wrote Sam's demonic mentor as a cute blonde. But saying that Dean is a misogynist because of this behavior is nonsense. There is no proper example to back up the claim. Dean didn't hit Ruby or call her a bitch because he hates women. He hates this demon, this inhuman thing who happens to be in some unfortunate girl's skin. His behavior, within context, was justifiable. His treatment of Ruby is no more misogynistic than shooting a Hellhound would be animal cruelty.

Exactly. I agree so much with what you've said throughout this post. The context of Dean's words - and the words of other characters (like Gordon and Ruby who are the only two people to have used the word "whore" on the show) have to be viewed in terms of who their characters are, and more than that, who other characters are.

One small thing, though:
They didn't give that character any room to grow, so once the romantic setup didn't work out, they couldn't think of anything for poor Jo to do. Buh-bye, Jo.
As I understand it, one of the other reasons Jo wasn't brought back in any way during S3 was because Alona was a regular on another show - Cane. But now that's been cancelled, so who knows? Maybe we will get an ep or four with Jo and/or Ellen - but with the way the network keeps cutting SPN's budget, that may not be a possibility.

[grand-sophy.livejournal.com]

Thank you for tackling the definition of misogyny. It's misuse in this wank has been bothering me, too. I can totally see Dean as a sexist, but he's not a misogynist.

[tygrrlyli.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed this. I was pointed here by layne67. And to her/him I am grateful.
I like your point of view. I agree with much of it, and even if I didn't agree with a word of it, I would still think it well worded.

I also find it interesting how people ignore the times Dean has actively shown he is nifty. Yeah, don't expect your level of well-thought-out-ness from me >_<

Madison. Madison is a werewolf, one who has killed at least 2 people. Both Dean and Sam know there is a killer werewolf, and both know who specifically this werewolf is. Dean does not go in guns blazing. He wanted to, originally. In fact, he feels incredibly enthusiastic about killing a werewolf. But once he finds out that this pretty, intelligent, nice woman is a werewolf, he is less gung-ho. More to the point, when this very pretty woman makes it clear she is uninterested in Dean, -he backs off-. He has enough sense and respect for her choices that he doesn't continue pushing at her. I have a feeling that a true misogynist would not be so respectful.
Then, she shows enough redeeming, good qualities that Dean is not only able to see a person instead of a werewolf, but a woman instead of a werewolf.
He is able to step out of his comfort zone (monsters=bad=kill kill kill) for not only a person, but a woman. He remains reluctant to kill her, even though she is a monster, and even understands Sam's feelings toward her. Again, I feel like a misogynist would not understand Sam's feelings and would be more of the mind to just "kill the bitch and move on" considering that she's A)a woman, B)a werewolf.

Next, the female vampire who just wanted to exist. Dean again steps out of his black/white comfort zone and not only sees another being getting tortured, but a woman who deserves mercy and saving. He could just as easily have seen the situation the way Gordon did. Vampire, regardless of how s/he behaves, is a monster to be destroyed. But she evidenced, again, redeeming qualities to de-monster-ify herself. If he were a misogynist, I don't believe he'd have changed his mind so easily. Being a monster on top of being a woman would have been enough. (And no, I don't think most misogynists would happily or easily kill a woman, definitely not. More what I mean is, it might be the straw to break the back.)

Do I think Dean is confused by women? Lacks a certain level of respect for them? Is on some level afraid of them or of interacting with them? Posi-fucking-lutely.
But I also think that about the vast majority of men in the world. And of women as well. Honestly, I have little faith in the human species regarding positive social interaction.
But ignoring my intense cynicism. I think Dean does the best he can given his severe confusion and emotional wounds. Do I think that makes it okay for him to behave the way he does? Actually, yeah, cause he's at least trying, and he's learning, and he shows he's capable of learning/thinking/progressing. So I just can't fault him. I don't think he's anymore misogynistic than most men in the USA, nor more confused/confounded with interacting with women than most men.
Hell, he shows respect for women in that he
A) backs off when a woman shows no interest,
B)[though this is really only implied] he seems to be interested in whether a woman enjoys sex with him. Sure, that may be completely selfish in that he enjoys himself more when his partner is happy, or it's an ego-boost; but he could just as easily leave his partners unsatisfied after he gets his jollies. So I do personally view this as a level of respect. Women do not automatically equate 'blow-up doll' even when he is viewing them as sexual objects.
There are more things, but I'll stop here cause it doesn't matter, I'm wasting your comment space, and I can't word things right anyway.

[scarlet-avatar.livejournal.com]

I don't know how i got here but Dude wow.

All i got is a big, fat WORD. Because yeah, i'm getting irritated that Dean is being labeled a misogynist when it perfectly clear he doesn't HATE WOMEN.

[muses-circle.livejournal.com]

Bravo. Well written and thought out response to the insanity.

I took Bela's momentary panic over Dean frisking her to be a result of her abuse as a child. That thought went through my mind even before they revealed her history of sexual abuse.

Just my two cents.

[alchemie.livejournal.com]

You are awesome!!!! But I already knew that.

[kiacook.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure I don't agree with you but this is the first post arguing that Dean is not being misogynistic this season when he uses gendered insults (among other actions) that has been the least bit consistent and coherent, made me see the issue from a different perspective or actually given me something to think about. Thanks for that.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

My pleasure.