Ratings and Warnings

[oselle]

Does anyone else feel frustrated by the ratings and warnings required on fanfiction?

In a practical sense, I understand their necessity. There's a ton of fanfiction out there and there has to be some way to sift and sort the the things we want to read. Plus it seems like a matter of courtesy to inform people upfront what they're getting into.

But this is a "courtesy," or at least a safeguard that we don't expect from published fiction -- which frankly, is a costlier prospect since we're usually paying hard currency for it, and by the time we find out it's "not our bag" it's probably too late to return for a refund. When we buy a book, we usually have nothing to go on besides a vague description on a book jacket and possibly a critical review or a friend's recommendation. It's not even something we get from movies. While movies are rated, they don't come with advance notice of who'll be hooking up with whom (unless that's something that's a given, like with Brokeback Mountain). Why do we require such safeguards be built into fanfiction when it's free for the taking, and if you discover that you don't like it, you can just click right off it without having some $29.95 doorstop hanging around your house?

If you're writing a romantic story that revolves around a "will they or won't they" plot, doesn't it kill your story to have to plant that rating/pairing notice right up on top of your fic? E.g...you're writing Dean/Castiel, and you label it as Dean/Castiel and then rate it NC-17. Well, that pretty much tells everyone they will doesn't it? So it not only destroys the tension of your story but it'll probably have a lot of readers skipping over most of your story to get to the part where "they will!"...and do, most likely in explicit detail if the rating is accurate. And then you never know if people liked your story or just responded to the sex. On the other hand, if you label your story Dean/Castiel and then rate it PG-13 or even R, people know there's nothing explicit in there, so that even with that forward-slash, it might not be what some people consider a "real" Dean/Castiel story.

Has anyone found any clever ways to get around this?

Comments

Re: some people

[oselle.livejournal.com]

What do you mean, cover it all up with grey?

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

I got tired of it, and finally started posting semi-exclusively to my journal. I warn for what I want to warn for, and people can read or not. I always wonder how I would have responded to reading "The Prince of Tides" had I had a fannish warning tag on it. I wasn't warned, and it hit me HARD. The way it was supposed to.

Fandom is very nanny-ish with warnings. It's pretty ridiculous.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Right, the real problem is when it comes to posting your fics to a com or the newsletter because you HAVE to abide by their ratings and warnings systems. That's why I didn't post "The Shame of it All" anywhere but my journal because to me it was Dean/Castiel but it was sexless and barely merited the R-rating. And there are fics that I've deliberately skipped because I feel like the whole story is laid out in the warning and rating and pairing advisory.

Just this past weekend I went to see The Road and there were two older women in the bathroom afterwards complaining about how they hadn't known it would be "that kind of picture!" LOL -- I guess they thought it'd be a feel-good story of a boy and his dad. But I thought of how the whole story would have been spoiled if the movie had required a fanfic-style list of warning labels.

ETA: Even in just posting to your journal, have you ever been called out by someone who thought you didn't appropriately label your fic?

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

Damn, wonder if those two gals knew the fucking thing was a BOOK for YEARS before the movie??

I don't think I've ever really been called out -- I mean, there isn't much I do in SPN that's label-worthy, I don't think, but what there is of it, no, I don't think there's been any calling-out. The downside, obviously, is lack of exposure for the stories; there are gajillions more people/prospective readers on fiction comms than have my journal friended.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

A Pulitzer Prize-winning book, no less.

The lack of exposure is a giant drawback. I've heard people refer to comments as the only "payment" we get for this and there's a lot of truth to that. If you don't market your story people aren't going to seek it out...and you don't get paid!

The worst warning of all, IMO, is "character death." I don't read thos fics, not because the death turns me off, but because I feel like there's no surprise there. Like you said about Prince of Tides, there are things in stories that are meant to hit the reader hard. If you're obliged to caution the reader upfront, there goes the impact, so what's the point?

Re: they pick a screen and cover the text in grey, a highlighter

[oselle.livejournal.com]

So they redact their own story? I don't see the point in that at all.

[mirabile-dictu.livejournal.com]

After the last big fandom-wide discussion on warnings, I see a lot of the greying out, so people can decide whether to read the most explicit warnings or go in un-warned. I don't think it affects me much as a writer because I write such blah stuff, but the rare times I do post something that might trigger someone (e.g., one story was about a child molester), I definitely warn. I'm not a professional author; I'm writing for my friends, and the last thing I want to do is upset or distress a friend, you know?

If that helps.

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

If you're obliged to caution the reader upfront, there goes the impact, so what's the point?

Perzackly. This is what I mean about the nannying. We say that warnings are to keep readers from being -- I dunno, traumatized by a given story's content.

No one's ever been able to adequately address the question: What if trauma is the motherfucking POINT? Are we supposed to sugar-coat everything? On the off chance that someone might be shocked, or offended, or -- choose your reaction? Are we supposed to be reassured that all topics are either sanitized for our protection -- thereby requiring no warnings at all -- or kept on a shelf labeled and warded and spackled and shielded, lest we somehow RISK exposure to an idea that bothers us?

Fuck that. I used to try my best to play that game. I got REEAAAALLY tired of it. I don't like the idea that I can't think for myself. That I have to be protected. I don't like death stories, most of the time, myself -- but I'd rather stumble into a death story than know, going in, that Dean's/Sam's/the entire world's gonna bite it. I understand when people say they don't want real-world grittiness -- they want fantasy. I understand, and I say this: Start reading the mother, and if you see it going a direction you don't like, JUST FUCKING STOP READING. Don't require the author to stand over your shoulder, like a hand-wringing mommy. If you're old enough to read this shit, you're old enough to deal with the consequences.

Lack of exposure -- well, it depends. If the price of exposure is shellacking your work in needless, spoilery warnings, and risking a mitigated impact as a result, I don't know that the exposure's really worth it. It will never be quite the same sort of response as it might have been, had people not been spoiled. But I did play the game a long time, and in so doing I got a bunch of my work out there in people's faces. These days I don't jump through the hoops, but I don't write much at the moment, either, so there's that to keep in mind. (As to how much of the falling-off in my volume is my own doing, and how much is a tired reaction to the increasingly odious burden of warning, formatting, etc., etc., on the authors' shoulders, I can't really say. Probably a bit of both. As you say, we do this for free. When it turns into a chore, it...becomes a chore.)

Re: ah ha

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

Well, that and I really haven't been writing much lately. New job, 12-hr days, and well. But when I do post, I've gotten to where I only do so on my journal, yes. Too damn much trouble to figure out the rules for each comm, and wait to be approved, only to find out you forgot to dot an i or cross a t. Or, as too often is the case, dot your t and cross your i. Or eyes. *g*

[mara-snh.livejournal.com]

The one and only time I found myself making exactly the same arguments -- almost as devil's advocate, given that I usually include warnings on my work when I imagine there's a need -- I found my formerly good name and out-of-context quotations splashed all over countless LJs, comms, and even a massive fandom wiki. I even lost a couple of friends by the time the dust had settled. Some fans take this warning business very very very seriously. I mean killer seriously. You wouldn't believe it. So be careful out there.

[mara-snh.livejournal.com]

The problem with that is you can't know if the technique you choose for hiding text will have the same effect on all computers because of the different colors we have as part of our journal themes and whatnot.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I'm sort of in the middle on it. On the one hand, I consider the "warnings" more like advertisements. I like to know the pairing because I'm usually avoiding the pairings that don't interest me and looking for ones that do. Or characters I like or whatever. I was going to say that I like having ratings because I like to know, say, what kind of slash I'm reading, but since I don't ever skip to the smutty part (smut isn't as nice anyway without the context and the build-up imo) I don't necessarily need ratings. Though I can see the point of them if you're reading at work or whatever--the usual reasons.

When it comes to other warnings to be honest I don't usually read them. I like the greying out solution since they help people who are trying to avoid them while helping the people who are trying to avoid a certain thing.

Like, there's one author I used to read a lot who refused to put in pairings and it just annoyed me because when I read fic I'm usually looking for something I want to read by character or pairing or whatever and it was annoying that I could never go back and remember which ones I liked.

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

It's difficult, really. On one hand people want to know exactly if a fic is what they want to read. On the other hand, all those info is a give away. It's really unfair that printed books don't have to do that.

Hmm. Not too much of a solution, eh? Sorry.

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

Yeah I like to know the pairings too because there are some that just don't interest me.

In fact that happened to me very recently where I got several chapters into WIP and the author had a big twist that revealed an out-of-the-blue romantic pairing that I would never have touched with a 10 foot poll. I probably won't keep reading, but I wouldn't have started it in the first place if I had an inkling of where the story was going because it's one of the tropes I've come to HATE in this fandom. Not the end of the world or anything but it's a couple of hours I could have spent reading something else.

But I do understand why the author didn't want to reveal the pairing upfront because it would have given away the twist and I also suspect, would have turned a lot of readers off before-hand. Though I suspect I'm being a bit too cynical about that last part.

As for other warnings, I read them if they're there but I rarely bother if they're grayed out. I rarely read death fic though so I do appreciate knowing about those ahead of time.

I can see how it's frustrating for authors though since you all spend all this blood, sweat and tears, building suspense and heightening drama and then you have to give your punchline away before the story even starts.

[grandiose666.livejournal.com]

my .02, feel free to skip

I like the *highlight to read* warnings solution because people can choose whether they want to be warned. People for whom surprise is very important can skip, and people like me who enjoy knowing what to expect can get it.

I'm always a little surprised that surprise is such a central part of other people's reading experience because it isn't at all important to me. Knowing the ending of a mystery or who dies or whatever is just fine. To me, if it's well written, knowing the ending does not destroy the tension building in the piece.

Good writing has an impact not just at the moment of surprise!death (or surprise!buttsex) but in every turn of phrase, in every nuance and still moment. It's about the journey.

It's a little strange to me to hear authors worrying about the impact or lack thereof, because it's something felt by the readers, who feel and react in different ways. I don't think that giving readers this kind of information (especially if they can choose to access it or not) and helping them make an informed choice is in any way detrimental to the story or the reading experience. Nor is it nannying to allow access to this information--certainly not more controlling than making the choice to withhold the info in an attempt to cause the reader to feel surprise/shock/pain. Especially since, as I've mentioned above, not all people react the same way to surprise/spoilers (being 'hit hard' is a good word choice: some people really enjoy that kind of thing, others find it 'too hard' and don't enjoy it at all but might if it hit them less hard ie if theyd been warned), but most people react similarly to good writing.

Also re: impact if there's a twist or sudden death or something, not only are readers already emotionally invested but they can't extricate themselves when things are 'turning' worse--it takes a sentence or two, in those cases.

(whether an author wants to take the time/effort warn is a seperate issue.)

Many enjoy knowing pairings, ratings, warnings, and even genre because sometimes I'm in the mood for heavy angst, sometimes fluff, sometimes casefic or crossover....labels help me pick out what I'm in the mood for now (especially with a long flist and limited time to read).

I don't think that most people skip to the porn. I for one find that sometimes some authors rely on generic slash writing instead of character development and plot; seeing a pg13 on a non-schmoop story (esp by an unfamiliar author) lets me know there might be some emotional impact there (not that nc17 lacks it, necessarily, but sometimes sex can be a crutch).

re published works, movies: in addition to being classed by genre, blurbs, the jacket, commercials, previews etc there are also published, professional *reviews* that people depend on for deciding whether it's something they'd enjoy, whether it would be appropriate for a more mature child, whether they're in the mood for it now. Including websites that list how many instances of graphic content there are, in detail. The existence of such websites that people can access, or not, does not seem to take away from our collective movie-watching/book-reading experience.

rec comms and genre/pairing comms can help fulfill this role, but there are no true analagous institutions in nonprofessional fandom.

[ala-tariel.livejournal.com]

You know I never read that section in any fanfic. If I like the story, then I read it. I don't care about the ratings and warnings. Besides I never understand those ratings. I always ask my sis what's the meaning of certain rating.

[ghyste.livejournal.com]

I was about to write a long reply to oselle's post, but happily for me you've pretty much just said everything I was going to :)

[smilla02.livejournal.com]

I don't know why fanfiction is treated differently than any other piece of writing, but it is and it drives me crazy. Is it perhaps because the author is *present* in the readers experience? As in we are here over LJ. I understand the need for informative headers and I would never want to traumatize anybody so I put warnings when I feel they're needed, but I never read the first part of a header because I like to be surprised - even when the surprise is negative. And I don't know, really, usually I can say from the first paragraph or two if I'm going to like a story or not.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I'm always a little surprised that surprise is such a central part of other people's reading experience because it isn't at all important to me.

It's not necessarily a central part of all reading experiences but it can be a central part of certain stories...or movies, or television episodes or whatever. There's a reason, for example, that so many of those "Next on Supernatural" previews show scenes that are deliberately out of order and misleading -- they're teasers, they're not meant to let you know what's really going to happen. You have to watch and find out. Similarly, professional reviews of published works give you an outline of the plot and critique the story, and may on occasion warn readers that something is "not for the faint of heart" or something like that but they don't divulge exactly what the potential hazards are.

if there's a twist or sudden death or something, not only are readers already emotionally invested but they can't extricate themselves when things are 'turning' worse--it takes a sentence or two, in those cases.

And this never happens in published fiction? I recall reading John Irving's "Hotel New Hampshire" and becoming increasingly horrified by non-stop tragedies that were piled on to, IMO, a ludicrous degree. The specifics of those tragedies were not listed in any review or book jacket that I ever saw. I resolved that I wouldn't read anything else by John Irving. Big deal. You pays your money and you takes your chances...only with fanfic, you're not even paying your money so is it really so agonizing to have to "extricate" yourself after a sentence or two?

The only justification for these ratings/warnings systems that I can see is that there's so much fanfic out there and we need a way to filter it. But I think there are absolutely cases where the ratings and warnings are just spoilers -- and since many of us don't care to be spoiled about the mainstream fiction that we read or watch, it's funny that we seem to require spoilers in order to make "informed choices" about our fanfiction.

certainly not more controlling than making the choice to withhold the info in an attempt to cause the reader to feel surprise/shock/pain.

ETA: I was thinking about the scenes that were shown as previews of "Abandon All Hope," and relating them to your comments. The scenes made it look like the episode was going to be about Dean and Jo finally hooking up, or at least as if that would be a big part of the episode. Instead, the episode was about Jo's (and Ellen's) unexpected and dramatic death. Do you think it was "controlling" for the show to withhold this information from the audience and in fact, deliberately mislead us about the episode's focus? Would you have preferred to know about Jo's death in advance so that you could make an informed choice about whether or not to watch the episode? Do you think other viewers would have liked to know in advance? And do you think that Jo's injury and death would have had the same impact if you'd been forewarned about them?

Re: no not the whole story

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I don't think the SPN fiction coms or the newsletter allow you to hide the warnings, in fact supernaturalfic won't even accept your post if you don't put your ratings and pairings in their specified format. My post for "Jonah of Dalhart" was initially rejected because I didn't put "Dean/OFC" immediately after the rating (I had it at the end i.e.: PG-13, Dean, Castiel, Dean/OFC). But even though Dean/OFC was hardly a central part of the story, it had to go first as if it were, because romantic or sexual pairings had to be listed before anything else.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I wonder exactly how many people out there have been "traumatized" by fanfiction.

I can recall that I was once very upset by an LoTR fic -- that was very highly regarded and practically attained legendary status in that fandom -- because it was such a complete overturning of canon hobbit lore. I feel much more strongly about Tolkien's canon than I do about Kripke's. That was a long time ago but I'm pretty sure that fic had all the usual warnings...what was upsetting about it was the way it was written and by the author's general perspective and essential disdain for canon. Now, in that case it might have helped if she'd labeled it as an AU, but even so, nothing could have prepared me for what she had in store. I personally find that the things that can be upsetting in a work of fanfiction are things that you can't put a label or warning on.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I think a good summary could take the place of detailed warnings and pairing advisories and serve that same function of "advertising," which, I agree is not only polite but necessary. A good summary is basically the same as a book jacket or a blurb in TV Guide or whatever.

Not that this is a particularly good summary, but I'd say that:

Sam and Dean are mysteriously stranded on K2 and have to find creative ways to stay warm.

Is a lot more intriguing than:

Sam/Dean, NC-17

And therefore more effective as advertising. Isn't intriguing the audience the point of advertising any work of fiction in any medium?

[oselle.livejournal.com]

But I think the warnings themselves can be misleading. To abide by com and newsletter rules, I had to label "Jonah of Dalhart" as "Dean/OFC" and I had several people tell me that they almost didn't read it because they "never read that pairing." But "that pairing" wasn't what the story was even about!

[oselle.livejournal.com]

usually I can say from the first paragraph or two if I'm going to like a story or not.

So can I, and I've started numerous stories that were labeled as the sorts of stories I like (angst, h/c, whatever) only to find out I wasn't into the story anyway. And I'm sure I've been turned away from stories that I might have liked because of the way they were labeled.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

We get surprises like this in mainstream fiction all the time. And yes, sometimes they're nasty surprises or ones that piss us off or that make us feel like we've wasted our time, but we don't expect published authors to inform us going in what the twist or pairing or climax is going to be.

A good example is Philip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy. I went through all three of those books only to wind up with a romantic pairing that not only grossed me out but was utterly laughable. To be honest, I thought the story started deteriorating long before that, but I kept plugging away only to get smacked in the face with THAT nonsense at the very end. But you know, I still wouldn't have expected Pullman to put a "Will/Lyra PG-13" label on it, and I'm sure no one else would, either.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Well, that doesn't surprise me. A lot of people take a lot of things in fandom to a degree that would be preposterous in the real world.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

It's funny, I've never seen any of this graying out, ever. And as far as I know, the comms and newsletters don't allow it, and that's where most of the action is, at least in SPN fandom.

I'm writing for my friends, and the last thing I want to do is upset or distress a friend

I don't know WHO I'm writing for...some of my readers are friends, some aren't, and I'm sure I have more than a few lurkers. And no I don't want to deliberately upset anyone but there is such a thing as dramatic effect and wanting your readers to be drawn into a story and experience it as the characters in it do. In one chapter of a story I wrote, a cat gets killed. And I did the nice, correct thing and put an "animal abuse" warning on that chapter although it really killed me to do so because I wanted that scene to shock the readers as much as it would have shocked the characters in the story. Yet meanwhile, anyone who'd taken the time to read the warnings would have known going in that the cat was dead meat. So pfft there goes your drama.

[mara-snh.livejournal.com]

So true. And they wonder why Kripke & Co. take out after them now and then.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's fandom per se that encourages outrageous behavior, I think it's just the online medium that lets people behave in a way they'd never consider acceptable in real life. A lot of people really let their jerk flag fly when they're hidden by a keyboard.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, that definitely does it for me.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I think sometimes it's the kink (for lack of a better word) factor too. What I mean is, with fanfic, you're often looking for a story that will satisfy an emotional need the canon gave you. You've seen canon, and now you'd like a story where the characters work things out in whatever way--for instance, all those fics that were spawned by The End that deal with Dean/Castiel's relationship and things like that.

But that also leads to some extreme stuff for some people, and sometimes one person's extreme emotional situation collides with an extreme emotional situation that someone else wants to avoid specifically. It's like...it this is a type of fiction people turn to to for a certain emotional comfort or exercise that's why they get treated as more sensitive emotionally? For instance, a lot of warnings are helpful to people with emotional triggers, and I've read people describing what it's like when they accidentally hit one, so that type of thing I'd be happy to warn for in a story if it was possible. (Though to an extent the kind of description Oselle gave should really be enough of a clue.) Things like character death, to me, seem more like somebody just not wanting to read a story that's sad. I can understand somebody not wanting that, but in that case a general idea that this fic is the type where death could happen should be enough.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying that ratings and warnings and pairing labels should be done away, because I do use them myself when finding stories to read. It just sometimes strikes me as a pain in the ass that there's such a split between what we expect from fanfiction and what we accept from mainstream fiction...I'm sure that in mainstream fiction we're constantly being surprised by things we didn't expect and may not like and yet in fanfiction the very same thing is considered "traumatizing." I've come across things in novels that have practically made me vomit and yet were barely hinted at in any review or summary. It happens. I know that there are cases where you really want to know exactly what you're getting and you don't want any surprises but sometimes the surprise or the shock or the twist is the whole point of the story.

[mara-snh.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm sure you're right about that. But from what I've heard, fans can be pretty horrifying jerks at cons, too. Maybe the adrenaline rush of such events (for those who like them -- I'd rather eat bugs) may serve to cloud their judgment somewhat in the same way as happens online.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yes, I agree. It's a total quirk of fanfic that this thing is very important--that it's rude to not do it--even though in published fiction it's not even a factor.

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

Sure. No argument there but I would kind of like it if they did. *g*

But there is a reason I read spoilers and the last pages of books. I know, I know. I'm the kind of consumer that artists hate. ;)

[smilla02.livejournal.com]

you're often looking for a story that will satisfy an emotional need the canon gave you

I agree and I relate to this need. You wouldn't believe how many things really, really annoy me in fanfic that are not even a blip in my radar when I'm reading profiction. I'd say that this happens because of the emotional connection we establish with the characters, because they are ours, they're not exclusive of anybody (not even the writers of the show, in a sense). A fanfiction that will get Dean so very wrong will make me angry and possibly ranty, you know, but personally I am willing to take the risk.

As for triggers - I'm thinking of stuff like non consensual sex, or abuse, self harm or addiction perhaps - they are an even more serious subject when you establish this emotive connection with the characters. I would go in blind and deal with my eventual reaction but I get why people don't want it so I try to warn.

I would never warn for slash, though. So the story Oselle is talking about isn't really a fic I would add warnings for. Listing a pairing or the characters is something I would do so people know what kind of story they're getting into and only out of courtesy because there's enough people that don't want to have anything to do with Cas.

I can understand somebody not wanting that, but in that case a general idea that this fic is the type where death could happen should be enough.

Yes. I've dealt enough with death in my life that death fic hit me hard, but pesonally I don't need to be warned for it. Of course it's just me, but really, death is part of everybody's life and there are stories whose point is exactly to deal with it.

[the0neru.livejournal.com]

I wanted that scene to shock the readers as much as it would have shocked the characters in the story - that pretty much sums up the whole argument, for me. I don't mind basic categorization - it saves me having to read half of a fic and then realize it's not something I want to finish - but I agree, a lot of the time the story's impact is negated or reduced just from the warnings. For me, part of the joy of reading - fanfic, novels, pretty much ANYthing - is the jolt of the unexpected. I'm far more likely to remember (and, usually, recommend) a book or story if it "gets" me in some way, and ruining all the surprises in it usually means there's nothing to make it "get" me.

I will admit that I don't really understand some of the things that are "warned", simply because I am opinionated or arrogant enough to assume that if you have that much difficulty separating fiction from reality, then "sensitive" material is the least of your worries; however, I have suffered only one major trauma in my life (knock wood), and that was the accidental death of a family member, not an attack on my person - so I could just be, as Dean might say, shitting rainbows.

/2 cents' worth

[oselle.livejournal.com]

As you may have guessed if you read my posts after episode 5:09 ("The Real Ghostbusters"), I feel pretty strongly about the show incorporating their take on fandom into the show. Basically, my sentiments boil down to DON'T FUCKING DO IT. In the first place, SPN is hardly the first show (or book or movie) to attract a rabid and occasionally kooky fandom. The producers' and writers' seemingly giddy fascination with fandom makes them look like out-of-touch idiots. In the second place, the producers, writers and actors have no business using jokes about fandom as material to pad the season. I consider it self-gratifying bullshit that is disruptive to the show's internal reality, does nothing to enhance or advance the story and in my opinion, has the potential to insult more than to amuse. It is something they do to entertain themselves and that's not their job. I don't give a damn how crazy fans act like online or at cons -- that's for us to ponder and discuss and disparage. If the show's team wants to joke about fandom amongst themselves, fine, but it doesn't belong in the show. Period.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I don't really understand some of the things that are "warned"

Cynically, I think some people take advantage of the warning systems to make their stories sound more interesting than they are. SPN fandom in particular seems littered with stories carrying the most colorfully lurid warnings -- and I deliberately avoid those fics. Not because of the subject matter, but because the warnings themselves tell me that it's probably a lousy, sensationalistic story and that the writer put more effort into her salacious warnings than she did into her story.

Re: just another reason not to post to the comms then

[oselle.livejournal.com]

That's a really interesting idea, but I can bet that section wouldn't get much traffic. I've been thinking about this and I think that reading fanfiction must be more like shopping in a grocery store than a bookstore. You might browse through a bookstore picking up various things that look kind of interesting, but at the grocery store you tend to stick to the brands and items that you know you like. It's not a great analogy, but it's the closest one I could think of.

[mara-snh.livejournal.com]

I absolutely agree with you about Kripke's abuse of the 4th wall. Maybe that's an example of professional judgment that keeps him out of the A-list parties, I don't know. I keep hoping that there's some wonderfully surreal purpose to those meta episodes -- to the very existence of The Prophet Chuck, at least. Are we going to find out there's some sort of parallel between fans and New Testament disciples, for example? I like my show enough to continue hoping so, or to cringe and move on if it turns out otherwise. It sure is interesting, though.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I thought the concept of Chuck as an out-of-print pulp-fiction prophet was wonderfully clever and had so much potential, but they just HAD to go ahead and ruin it by saddling him with a whole fandom, and then using both Chuck and his fandom as fodder for dumbass jokes and jabs instead of world-building or storytelling. It's a sort of childish lack of impulse control from which the show often suffers and it just makes my eyeballs steam. They may yet find something to do with Chuck, but I don't really care ever to see him again if the deplorable Becky and, God help us, Barnes and Demian -- or any other "fans" -- are along for the ride.

I actually think they've lost the plot with Chuck, or at least, that they don't really understand what a prophet does. A prophet doesn't make things happen, he only prophesies about them. When we first met Chuck, he was a guy who was tormented by visions that he was unwillingly compelled to transcribe -- even death wouldn't have released him from that duty. But it was never implied that Chuck's writing was actually causing those things to happen. Yet in 5:09, Chuck is not only happily announcing that he's going to start writing the Supernatural novels again, but Sam and Dean are furious with him for it -- as if Chuck himself were going to bring about the apocalypse just by envisioning it. Frankly, you'd think Sam and Dean would want Chuck to keep writing, it seems like he'd be a valuable resource to have around. That just made no sense at all.

I'm sorry, but my loathing of that episode still hasn't dissipated. The show will really have to sink to sub-sub-basement level to go any lower than that, IMO.

And I'm sorry for going off on you about the whole fandom thing...I just see red over any suggestion that fandom's occasionally loopy behavior justifies the introduction of such a stupid element into the show.