Mysteries of fanfic

[oselle]

Do you find that present tense is nearly ubiquitous in SPN and J2 fanfic? I can't tell you how many fics I click on that are in present tense. So much so that it's almost rare to find one written in past tense. Why is that?

Also: cryptic summaries. I don't get it. That snippet of an old folk tune, Bible verse or bit of Proust is no doubt fascinating and very meaningful for you but it doesn't tell me anything about your story. Is it really that hard to come up with a descriptive sentence or two? I'll take "Jensen pines away while Jared plans his wedding," over "Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediments," any day. (Note: This is a totally fictitious example, as far as I know.)

Speaking of which, where the hell are all the great fics about Jensen pining away while Jared plans his wedding? Or fics about impediments to the marriage of true minds, for that matter?

Comments

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

The present-tense thing bothers me, too. Default settings bother me. There's no thought in it. And how the hell did present tense BECOME the default setting? I admit I am ancient, but t'weren't always that way. Present tense was the tense you used for immediacy, and Neal Stephenson was the only author whose present-tense writing I enjoyed reading.

::rocking chair creaks::

I would like a pining!Jensen story right now! You'll share any linkage if you find it, won't you?

[oselle.livejournal.com]

My completely unscientific, random sampling has led me to believe that present tense is far more prevalent in slash, especially explicit slash, than it is in gen. Like you said in your linked post, there's an obvious immediacy to present tense -- this immediacy can be very arousing and compelling when writing about sex. You're writing about what someone is doing to someone right in this moment, not about what they did.

At the same time though, strangely enough, I find that writing in present tense allows me to put a sort of wall up between myself and what's going on, allowing me to overcome the awkwardness of writing an intimate scene. I've written only a few J2 stories but some of them were in present tense (not my usual past-tense default) and I never "heard" them any other way. I don't know if I was influenced by the other present-tense slash in this fandom, but I do know that I was far more comfortable writing romance and sex in present tense. When I had to write a sex scene for "Feast of All Saints," I swear I almost did it in present tense even though it would have broken with the whole style of the story. It's difficult to explain. I find that present tense somehow gives me a little distance from the events, and makes them seem less weighty or serious.

Also, writing in past tense is hard, especially when you have to start mixing in that annoying past perfect tense to describe events that happened before the events of your story. Writing in present tense is definitely easier from a grammar standpoint. However, as a reader, I find present tense most effective for shorter stories. I won't read any novel-length fic in present tense -- it just starts to seem clunky and gimmicky after a while. A very long story in past tense just has better flow, IMO.

And yes, where is all the pining!Jensen? Is everything just too tinhatty for that right now?

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

I've only read one pro novel in present tense that I truly enjoyed -- Snowcrash, Neal Stephenson. The rest, well. Some are okay.

Honestly, I'm not sure that present tense is easier than past. I think it's a fannish familiarity, yes; at least in SPN fiction, it's so much more common than simple past that maybe we are to the point that we expect it, at least to some degree. And some authors do it quite, quite well. But not everyone, not to the extent that I could confidently say it's easier.

And I admit, I don't really know why present tense is so overwhelmingly the tense of choice. I think simple past demands more of the writer, true. That immediacy that is the hallmark of present can carry a lot of narrative, kinda breathless, no time to linger. Maybe that is what makes it easier in intimate scenes.

Where I sorta demur is in the prevalence of any one writing choice. The tense and voice of a story should suit the story, not the author. It's nice when those two converge, absolutely. But, for example, an historical AU pretty much cries out for simple past tense. Could be third or first person, either one, but present tense feels quite modern, and it would be sort of incongruous in some story types. Short, active stories groove with present tense, and even longer stories that are dynamic, moderately descriptive if at all. Sometimes I think authors feel that instinctively; other times, not so much. But I'm not sure present tense is sufficiently flexible to fit all story types, definitely not enough to be the default setting. Simple past does have the advantage of being little-black-dress-y.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Simple past does have the advantage of being little-black-dress-y.

Bingo. It's the all-purpose, go-to tense that suits almost any type of story in any genre. It also seems to be the least obtrusive tense, letting the story do the work without getting in the way. Yet at the same time it has a natural elegance...the little-black-dress comparison is totally apt.

Totally agree with you about the present tense being poorly suited to historical AUs.

Now, a mixture of tenses and even persons can work, given the story. I'm reading The Story of Edgar Sawtelle, which is told in simple past tense, third person...yet for one key sequence, the author suddenly switched to present tense, second person. I was like, What the hell is he doing? but for that one scene, it totally worked. I also find that a sudden shift to present tense can work in a vivid memory or dream sequence because it accomplishes the same effect that say, fading or fogging the picture can accomplish on screen -- tells you that we're not in the present or waking world anymore.

[tripoli.livejournal.com]

A few years ago--and I have no links to back up anything I'm saying or even refresh my memory--there was some discussion of whether fandoms have "house styles" and what trends have gone in and out of style over the past few years, as fandom migrates through listservs and personal websites and archives and LJ. I definitely notice a difference between SG1 fics I've had on my hard drive for ten years and what I'm likely to find if I click on a fic written last week, and it's not entirely because my tastes and expectations have changed. Since SPN came into being after fandom was well-entrenched in LJ, I dunno, it just evolved a little differently, maybe?

Which is a roundabout way of saying that I think summaries are one of those things that have changed a little in purpose--just speaking personally, especially for shorter stories, I'd actually be less likely to click on a story with a summary that was a straight-faced one sentence synopsis. The way a writer presents her summary tells me something, or I interpret it as telling me something, about the way she uses the medium and what she wants me to have in my mind going into the story. (Granted, I might not click on a line of Proust either, if they're making me work that hard.) Obviously, this is entirely my uneducated guesses and personal biases, but a little bit of cryptic doesn't usually bother me.

And I remember rageprufrock had a really fun they're-not-hunters AU WIP going called Asunder about Sam marrying Ruby and Dean bringing Castiel to the wedding against his better judgment because there's all kinds of family drama--neither of which are pairings I'm ordinarily that interested in but she's a really talented storyteller.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

A little bit of cryptic isn't bad and frankly, my Shakespeare example wasn't that great because that particular quote acutally does tell me something about the story: that it will be about the marriage (or impediments to the marriage) of true minds. But sometimes I see these quotes and I literally don't have a clue -- even after I've read the story I sometimes still don't have a clue! I think the place for those great quotes that inspired or moved you to write that story is in your foreword or author's notes, or even at the end of your story. When was the last time you picked up a book that had nothing but a cryptic, artistic quotation on the jacket?

[tripoli.livejournal.com]

No, that's a good point--though one of the reasons I give fanfic a little more latitude is that I at least go in knowing something about the universe the writer is working in, so if it looks interesting, I'll read it in the context of that.

(Though my favorite summaries, when I think about it, tend to be a line from the story itself--done well, I think that strikes a good balance between a story tease and a straight-up synopsis.)

This is only tangentially related, but I run into this same question a lot when I do cover art for other writers--should it look like something you'd pick up in a bookstore, which generally won't have pictures of the main characters on the front and may not give much of the story away, or like a comic book or movie poster, which usually do have the characters in some form (and if I don't use any SPN source material, is it even fan art?). It's an interesting conundrum.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Art for a fic...it depends on what the art is for. If the art is there to really illustrate the fic, I like to see the characters -- but only if the artist is really good (at drawing, manips or whatever). Taking a screencap and trying to repurpose it as illustration for a story often doesn't work. However, for cover art, or art that sort of stands as a representative of the whole story? There I prefer the bookstore approach, something that symbolizes or captures the essence of the story without depicting the characters or an actual scene.

[tripoli.livejournal.com]

(See, I've never actually talked to anyone else about their preferences, so this is fascinating to me.)

I'm with you on the illustration vs. cover approach, that's a good way to articulate it.

While I'm getting off-topic--I've never been in HP fandom, but mctabby's Summary Executions are comedy gold.

[tripoli.livejournal.com]

http://mctabby.livejournal.com/tag/summary%20executions

Whoops, sorry, meant to link that.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

LOL, are those real? They must all be off ff.net. My favorite was, "Draco has a a dairy," and I sat there wondering why anyone would write a story about Draco Malfoy raising cows until I realized she meant diary.

[dnalia.livejournal.com]

Oh dear cod, those are AWFUL.

[maychorian.livejournal.com]

I don't know what it is about present tense but I don't like it. 99% of my fic is in past. That is to say, I don't like writing it and I generally don't enjoy reading it, either, but a good writer can win me over.

I like straight-forward summaries, too, especially with a bit of humor in them, something to tell me about the writer's style. So I guess I don't want the plain jane, "this happens, then this" kind of summaries, but random quotes confuse me, too.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Present tense works best for me in very short fics but I somehow can't sustain interest in a very long story that's in present tense. I think part of that is because the story begins to feel "journalistic," like a magazine article instead of fiction. Fiction, especially long fiction, flows better for me in past tense.

Some writers are really adept at writing succinct and often witty summaries -- I'm not one of them, so I aim for the straightforward rather than trying to be clever. In general, I think writers should save their hard work for their story and keep their summary down to a brief-as-possible "pitch" line. If it's a writer I know and trust I'll read their story no matter what -- but if I don't know the writer or don't know them that well, an interesting-sounding, factual summary will be more likely to get me to try her story than a mysterious or artsy quote that gives me no clue what I'm getting myself into.

[andycake.livejournal.com]

Oselle, I am always glad to have your journal on my flist. Love your take on all things fandom...and, you know, stuff in general.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Well, very glad to be of service :)

[hezio2.livejournal.com]

This tickled me. I have found the present tense in these stories odd, also. I thought it was just me. I mean why do these authors need to write in this style? Thanks for validating my feeling.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I admit I don't have a wide experience with many different fandoms, but present tense seems to be particularly overused in SPN. I can understand why authors do this -- I've done it myself -- but it's really widespread here.

[dnalia.livejournal.com]

Personally I hate present tense in stories.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I don't hate it outright but I like it best in small doses.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Summaries really matter when you're a new writer. I usually read everything from the well-known authors, skipping the summaries though I do read the warnings. But when it comes to writers that I'm not familiar with, then yes, good summaries are very important.

Bad summaries suck but summaries such as this suck even more - I suck at summaries. Sue me. That's a true example btw. God, do you even want to click on that?

[oselle.livejournal.com]

See now, I really DO suck at summaries and I still make an effort to write decent ones. What works for me is to try and pretend I have to write a blurb for TV Guide. Or that I'm pitching the story to a producer and I need to tell him what it's about in no more than two sentences. My favorite summary that I ever wrote was for "Jonah of Dalhart:" Dean gets out of the hospital after the thrashing he took in "Head of a Pin" and decides he needs a little space. Castiel disagrees. Because that really was the story in a nutshell. I don't usually get that lucky.

I've been laughing at the I suck at summaries non-summary since back in my LoTR days. You're right -- why would anyone even bother clicking on that?

[catsbycat.livejournal.com]

Hmm... interesting point. It's so widespread and I've become so used to it that now I notice if it's the other way around. ie if it's past past tense I'm all 'Huh, interesting.' I can't answer your question as to why, but personally I don't mind it at all. If the story is good I'll read it any tense.

I'm afraid I don't have an answer to your second question either. Alas.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Exactly, the present tense is so common that the past tense ones seem to stand out.

I wonder if part of the reason is that we're all so used to communicating in present tense in general. I mean, everything about virtual communicating is immediate and in the NOW that maybe it feels more natural to write stories in present tense too. Or, this could just be one of the many aberrations of fanfiction vs. profiction.

[roque-clasique.livejournal.com]

Huh! I never noticed that! I am physically incapable of writing in past-tense, personally. I don't know why. I always feel forced when I do so.

Do you like past-tense, or not?

Also, smilla02 has just posted an interesting question about summaries, and what kind people prefer: http://smilla02.livejournal.com/196888.html

My summaries range from cryptic and senseless to so obvious it's painful. Summaries are HARD WORK. Not as hard as titles, though, which is why all my titles are STUPID.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I generally prefer stories that are written in past tense, especially longer stories. It has a nicer rhythm and flow to it, I think, and as I mentioned upthread, present tense can have a journalistic feel that seems more suited to a magazine article than fiction. Present tense, for some reason, seems to be very widespread in SPN fandom -- it's almost rare to come across a story that isn't written that way. I don't know if this makes SPN fandom unique, or if present tense is prevalent in fanfiction in general. The only other fandom I ever really participated in was LoTR, where I don't remember ANY present-tense LoTR stories at all, but then, many LoTR fanficcers were trying to emulate Tolkien's style and even if they weren't, the present tense just sounded way too modern for the subject matter.

Summaries ARE hard -- I've drilled myself into pretending that I'm writing a TV Guide blurb or doing a two-sentence pitch to a producer or publisher: Boy meets girl. Complications ensue. That sort of thing.

[ariadnes-string.livejournal.com]

Still catching up...

Interesting post--I decided to give up present tense this year, though I can't really articulate why. I think because simple past lets you get more temporal texture, if you know what I mean: you can use past perfect, etc., more easily...

And I'm vowing to rethink my summaries after reading this!

Finally, I haven't read many pining fics, but I sure loved this one: Below the Joint by winterweathered (with the excellent summary: "in which Jared and Jensen are going their separate ways"--pg 13)

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Oh FINE, link me to a Pining!Jensen after I've just started my OWN Pining!Jensen. Now I can't read this until I'm done. (Although I have read one of her other J2 fics and it was really one of the only J2 stories I've ever read that really held my interest so I know she's good.)

simple past lets you get more temporal texture

Yes, but sometimes that gets tricky. I write in simple past tense, but a lot of times I have to write about something that happened in the story's past and I hate the look and sound of all those "hads." I mean I really hate them. So a lot of the time I'll just introduce the past perfect in the first line of the "memory" segment and then sneakily slip back into simple past and no one's noticed yet bwhahahaha!

[ariadnes-string.livejournal.com]

eee! I would apologize, but I am so excited that you are writing a pining!Jensen fic I can't really concentrate!

(and yes, the hads suck, but what're you gonna do?)

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

I found present tense could work in RPS, after my beta told me that. But it's true that for RPF, I still use past tense. Also, using past tense is way easier for me. :D

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I know that I've used present tense in RPS but I never use FP stories, or at least I've never done so with SPN fic. Not sure why I seem to lapse into it for RPS.

[jolielaide.livejournal.com]

Hi there. I just added you because I spent the weekend reading and then obsessing about Avalanche and then reading it and reccing it and then obsessing about it some more, so I thought I'd properly say hello.

And yes! Where IS all the post-nuptial pining!Jensen fic? Angst, I want it a whole lot.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

LOL...I actually started writing "Avalanche" to satisfy my own craving for Pining!Jensen fic...make that Pining!Jensen fic IN PAST TENSE.

[jolielaide.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I read with interest your observations about present tense fic. I like it, because of the immediacy, but I do think it's strange how prevalent it is. The one that's really hard for me is second person- yikes! It rarely works for me, but I have read a few stories that did-- it just takes really skillful execution.

I suspect Avalanche is responsible for making me crave post-Padalecki-wedding fic in the first place! If you come across any others that are noteworthy, would you share them with me? I'm scouring delicious like a fiend (a fiend with many, many other pressing obligations, sigh) but am coming up empty.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

If you come across any others that are noteworthy, would you share them with me?

Love to help you out but I read very little fanfiction these days, and the sum total of J2 fics I've ever read in entirety is three (one of them being a total AU in which they weren't even actors). The very idea of RPS used to horrify me a little but there is something about these two that gets me, damn them. I skim summaries though, and I'd noticed a dearth of Pining!Jensen which I found peculiar, but I think the whole subject of these weddings has become something of a hot potato in fandom these days. Can't really articulate why I feel that way, it's more of a vibe I'm picking up on.