SPN S6 Spoilers

[oselle]

I've mentioned my coworker Lois, who is a big TV geek and SPN fan. She spent part of her weekend reading reports from ComicCon and the first thing she said to me was, "You're not gonna be happy."

Now, I prefer to go into a new season of SPN completely unspoiled, but since Eric Kripke essentially ended the series with his it's-all-about-me "swan song," I've been kind of curious/nervous about what direction they'll take with Season 6. So I told Lois to lay it on me. And let me tell you something...I think Sera Gamble must've read all the critical things I've said about her and decided to sketch out a season uniquely crafted just to piss me off. Me.

Some of this stuff sounds so bad, so much like my "worst case scenario" for Season 6, that I'm wondering if Jared, Jensen et al were just throwing red herrings out there -- that's possible. I know sometimes they do that. But I think most of this stuff is legit. Some high points -- or low points, depending on your point of view:

1) The season will pick up one year after the events of "Swan Song," with Dean now warmly ensconced as a happily married family man and no doubt driving Ben to all those soccer games that he was supposedly always dreaming about.

2) In spite of looking so menacing, the Sam who was lurking there under the Flickering Streetlamp of Doom was NOT Evil!Sam, not Possessed!Sam -- he was just Good Old Sam. Good Old Sam will have somehow busted himself out of hell within a few days? weeks? of his apparent demise. Seemingly none the worse for wear, Good Old Sam is so stirred by the sight of HappyFamily!Dean whilst lurking menacingly under the Flickering Streetlamp of Doom that he generously decides to give Dean a year off to tie the knot, honeymoon at Sandals and comfortably settle down into cozy suburban domesticity. However...

3) The beginning of Season 6 will mirror the beginning of the series -- only with Sam now in Dean's position of having to intrude upon his brother's happily-ever-after for some as yet undisclosed reason.

4) As predicted, the show will return to a Season One-ish MoTW format. Both Jared and Jensen claimed to be excited about getting back to "the show they signed on for" and about the prospect of once again shooting things in the face on a weekly basis. Nevertheless...

5) Probably for no other reason than to keep Misha Collins around, the show will attempt to weave the MoTWs with some kind of heaven/hell mythology. No doubt there will be some blather about how Lucifer walking around for a whole year released a scourge of vampires and werewolves and evil spirits and general nasties upon the earth.

6) Jensen will finally get his directorial debut with a "Bobby-centric" episode. While it's very nice that Jensen gets to direct (a perk that I'm sure came along with that "Brinks truck of money" he so tactfully said would be the only thing to convince him to sign onto Season 6), I am dismayed by the prospect of episodes in a non-ensemble show that revolve around supporting characters. This is a sure sign of a show that is now on the far side of jumping that proverbial shark.

I'm sorry, but all of the above just sounds like ASS. The Js and Sera Gamble claimed that the show "won't forget what has happened" by returning to a MoTW format, but I think that's exactly what they're going to do. How the hell else are they going to return to the comparable innocence of two guys on the road "saving people, hunting things" after all they've been through?

Also, there was no hint of how they're going to deal with Dean's wife and son, but we clearly have only two choices -- kill them, or turn Dean into a guy who only hunts as a hobby. A sort of weekend sportsman if you will.

I guess there is a third choice: he can leave them. This would be a viable option if Sam came back "wrong" and Dean had to leave Lisa and Ben to save them. But if Sam is just Good Old Sam, then Dean has no reason to abandon his family without looking like a huge jerk, and that brings us back to the two very unattractive options already described and of course, opens up my months-ago rant about how Gamble really wrote herself into a GIANT FUCKING CORNER with this whole Lisa-and-Ben bullshit, and there's no way to get out of it without screwing Dean over.

As far as screwing Dean over, I'm more uncomfortable than ever with what Gamble's going to do with his character, for which I don't think she has ever had any real affinity. I'm not even going to touch the whole marriage business, let's talk about that so-called "role reversal" instead. Oooh, now Sam gets to fuck up Dean's life the way Dean fucked up his! Right? Wrong -- because Dean didn't fuck up Sam's life. Sam's domestic bliss with Jess was never going to happen. The YED didn't kill Jess because Dean had walked back into Sam's life...he did it because he had to make sure that Sam's domestic bliss with Jess was never going to happen. Unless they can come up with a parallel situation, what you've got in Season 6 is not "role reversal," it's Sam literally fucking up Dean's life -- a life that is not just some college-boy dream but one that he has been leading for a whole year -- and for no apparent reason except to go and chase some run-of-the-mill boogeymen. Since Gamble has always been ready to give Sam a free pass for anything he does, I'm sure she's busy patting herself on the back over her role-reversal cleverness and does not see what a false equivalency she's setting up.

I wonder how long it'll take before a Ghostfacers episode pops up? And there won't even be a good soundtrack! Ugh. Looks like my Friday-night yoga isn't going to get postponed too often after all.

Comments

[dangerous-puff.livejournal.com]

I eagerly await any and everything you write, and your kill me now posts are far and away my favorites. I have wholeheartedly agreed with every word you've written on each topic you've chosen, and this, while not as "important" as the posts on politics and social anthropology, is no less entertaining and almost scarily in line with my thinking.
You are the delicious sauce on the awesome.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Why, thank you. I wish there was some delicious sauce to spread over Season 6 but it sounds like that's going to be just one big helping of steaming turd. Though I'll readily admit that at this point, it's a whole lot more palatable to rant about this stuff instead of any of the gut-churning horrors that are happening in the real world.

[dangerous-puff.livejournal.com]

And with a broken a/c and thermostat pegged at 95, you can make me laugh whiole being 100 per cent right!!

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Ugh, my sympathies for your a/c. This is no summer to be without one.

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

Dude it gets worse if you watch the video interviews, especially with Kripke and Jared. Seriously, those two should just stop talking if they want to retain any audience at all.

And Misha was bizarrely brusque about not wanting to talk about Dean and Cas' friendship.

Just one thing, I think it's been clarified that Dean and Lisa are not technically married but living common-law. I think Edlund mispoke. Or he was high.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

My friend was reading to me off her computer so I'm not sure whom she was quoting when she said that Dean and Lisa were married (now that I think about it, it actually might have been the often mistaken Kristen from E! Online). At any rate, I guess that's an irrelevant detail because they might as well be husband and wife. Whether they're married or not isn't going to make Dean's skipping out any less distasteful now that he's been a fixture in her home for a whole year.

I think my head would explode if I actually watched the interviews. As far as I'm concerned, Kripke doesn't even have any business talking about Season 6 at all. He wrote his own private series finale and left the show in Sera Gamble's incapable hands...because his imagination apparently had a 5-year expiration date. If he wasn't interested enough to stick around, why should I be interested in anything he has to say? As for Jared (and Jensen), they both made it clear that money was the primary motivation for them to do a sixth season, and if they're just in it for the money, I suspect it's going to show.

Regarding Misha, I've never been able to figure that guy out. His attitude in interviews has sometimes really rubbed me the wrong way. The show has also been really uptight about the slashy side of fandom, so whatever affection manifested between Dean and Castiel over the past two seasons has probably been written out -- not to mention that now that Sam's back in the picture, the rapport between Dean and Castiel would just be more than the writers could manage. So we'll have Castiel back -- in some capacity -- but not the way we knew and loved him.

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

Yeah the marriage thing is just semantics really and I agree, that the potential for it to go horribly wrong for Dean as a character is massive, especially in the hands of these writers. But I did like Jensen's comment during the panel (and boys was he glowingly pretty) about his arc essentially coming to terms with his past and who he is and who he wants to be. Or something like that. But yeah, the set-up is going to screw him over one way or another and fandom is just salivating over the prospect of it.

RE: Jared rambled on about how Sam comes back and the conversation he has with Dean and about how he got out of Hell a year ago but never came to get Dean because he wanted him to be happy with Lisa and Ben. But then Dean says he spent a whole year crying and drinking and reading books to try and figure out a way to get him out, and Sam says he promised he wouldn't so it's Dean's own fault. And he said it all with a total lack of awareness of how hypocritical that would sound coming from Sam.

Then he kept going on about how he gets to be the bossy big brother now because he was in Hell and had Luci inside him so he knows stuff, once again, as if Dean had never been to Hell himself. It was odd.

I know interviews are hard and some people are obviously more thoughtful about the show as a whole and more articulate, but still, he made it sound like Sam was going to be a total dickhead but as if he had no idea that's how Sam would come across.

As far as Kripke, yeah he's still pulling the strings for season 6 but he said some stuff about Dean's role during the past 5 years that just made me go bzuh!

[oselle.livejournal.com]

It sounds to me like what Gamble is trying to do with this whole "role reversal" is turn Sam into Dean in the hope that Sam's character will come to the fore the way Dean's character did five years ago. If so, it's a miscalculation on her part -- Dean didn't emerge so strongly from his original "sidekick" pigeonhole because he was just the bossy older brother, it was a combination of factors, most of which had to do with what Jensen brought to the role.

[ann-tara.livejournal.com]

It sounds to me like what Gamble is trying to do with this whole "role reversal" is turn Sam into Dean in the hope that Sam's character will come to the fore the way Dean's character did five years ago. If so, it's a miscalculation on her part -- Dean didn't emerge so strongly from his original "sidekick" pigeonhole because he was just the bossy older brother, it was a combination of factors, most of which had to do with what Jensen brought to the role.

Yeah, what I got from the Kripke and Jared parts of the CC interviews in particular is that neither seem to understand what Jensen brought to the role (which I guess makes sense since Sam is supposed to be Kripke). And, yes, from everything I watched and read - and am sorry as hell that I did - it seems that the premise of season six boils down to attempting to turn Sam into Dean in hopes that he will finally become the more popular brother. *eyeroll*

I'm not enthused by anything I heard from CC, from anybody. I think if I hadn't already spent the money on a ticket for next February's LA Con, I'd probably be done with this show. Now I feel like I have to at least dvr it and watch with the FF button on. Whatever.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I'm definitely going to watch because now I'm really curious about whether it's going to be as dreadful as it sounds. Some weird part of me hopes it is, because I really want to move on from SPN in general. But the other part of me will always feel badly that this show had so many chances to acheive its considerable potential and blew every one of them and will go out not with a memorable bang but with a forgettable whimper.

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah Misha. I like him because he's got fandom's number and he's not scared to play. But I don't think he's too happy with what appears to be a certain marginalization of his character. He's not even showing up until several episodes in, apparently. Either 603 or 606. I think it's still up in the air.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Oh please, I think Misha's full of shit when it comes to having fandom's number. I know, for example, that he likes to tease con audiences about slash because he knows that we consider it bad fandom "etiquette" to talk about it in front of the actors. Well it IS bad etiquette, and it's just as rude of him to break those rules for his own amusement as it would be for any one of us to do it -- and frankly, when any one of us does do it, she gets castigated all over fandom, and he should be treated the same way.

I'd really like to see someone take him up on it and say, "Yes, Misha, let's talk about slash. Let's stand here and have a nice, long discussion about how many women here would love to see you and Jensen fuck each other senseless." We'd see how much he'd be willing to "play" then.

As for Castiel's "marginalization," I loved Castiel, but I really don't think he has a place in the show at all anymore...and they're bringing him back because he was a popular addition. But popular additions have a way of wearing out their welcome when their job is done and I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen here.

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

Heh! Misha still amuses me but as far as Cas wearing out his welcome, I already feel like that about Bobby and Sam so one more isn't going to make much of a difference to me.

The thing I find hilarious is that the whole dog and pony show was set up to reassure fans that Kripke would still be around to keep an eye on Sera. But he actually did way more harm than good. I really think they're PR people are falling down on their coaching jobs.

[oxer12.livejournal.com]

I also read that they were going to do "origin stories" on the MotW, like to explain how each one came to be. *yawn*

I'm very, very nervous about this season. Yes, I'll watch of course, but I reserve the right to bitch mightily!

[oselle.livejournal.com]

What, origins of the monsters? Like I give a shit.

Most of Season 5 was so boring that the only thing that kept me going was the mytharc. Now there's not even going to be that. Plus I've gotten really turned off by the show's take on fandom, by Jared and Jensen's pantywaist bitching about how hard they work, by the general attitude of the people behind the show to their audience, etc. I'm not sure Jensen's pretty face is going to be enough to keep me around.

[oxer12.livejournal.com]

Yes, the origins of the monsters. Gag.

What the hell is up with the J's attitude lately, anyway? If they fucking hate their jobs so much, why did they sign on for another season (or two)? I really wish Season 5 was it. I loved the finale, and it should have just ended there.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I dunno what's up with the Js but my opinion of both of them, especially Jensen, really went down a notch after that Entertainment Weekly article. It's clear that they only signed on for another season because they both got a shitload of money to do it -- but that also makes it clear that they're only here for the money and that neither one of them gives a shit. I have very, very low tolerance for wealthy actors who complain about their lot. If they don't like it, there are a great many jobs out there that do not require being separated from one's wife or working the occasional 14-hour day. Given their high-school level of education, they could start with being...a cashier somewhere. Steady pay, normal hours, and you get to go home to your wife every night. Go do it.

[ghyste.livejournal.com]

I think Sera Gamble must've read all the critical things I've said about her and decided to sketch out a season uniquely crafted just to piss me off. Me.

I think you just stole my line there :)

I’ve got a long documented hatred for too much kitchen-sink drama in my SF/Fantasy and quotes like “Dean's major conflict at the start of the season will revolve around how the more he tries to protect Lisa and her son from the Hunter's life, the more his efforts put him closer to being a Hunter again.” make it sound like the whole “Dawn’s Ben’s in trouble; must be Tuesday” crap that drove me out of Buffy is heading our way. Ally that with having Sam’s brief stint in Hell make him super special (to quote Jared: “I've got the answers, I was in hell”) after the cack-handed way they treated the aftermath to Dean’s stay there, plus Bobby-centric episodes and previously unseen relations popping out of the woodwork left right and centre, and I lose what little hope I was still clinging to.

I can just about handwave Sam withholding the fact that he’s escaped as blind stupidity of the sort that made Dean think Sam would be fine when Dean’s Deal came due (the fact that S4 showed that Sam was fine is neither here nor there – it was still a stupid assumption) rather than malice. However, having judged Sam hard for spending Dean’s time in Hell fucking Ruby, holding pizza parties with her, going to the cinema and putting together Pod playlists means I’m going to judge Dean just as hard if I find he’s been spending Sam’s (apparent) time there organising his wedding.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I’m going to judge Dean just as hard if I find he’s been spending Sam’s (apparent) time there organising his wedding.

Well, I'm not because Dean made a sworn promise to Sam that he would "be happy" with Lisa and at least Lisa and Dean had some history together (however stupidly that was slapped together) whereas Ruby was just...oh my God, don't even get me started on Ruby. If you read upthread, you'll also see that Dean tells Sam he spent the whole year not exactly in domestic bliss, but trying to figure out a way to spring Sam from hell, which sounds like an awful lot more than the...four weeks or so that Sam floundered around feeling bad before he forgot about Dean altogether because he had better things to do -- his hot new demon girlfriend being tops on the list.

“I've got the answers, I was in hell”

I can accept that being possessed by Lucifer himself would give Sam insights that Dean's own stay in hell did not give him, but the question is, what answers do we need? If there's no mytharc and the boys are just going to be paranormal exterminators, who cares if Sam is special or not?

previously unseen relations popping out of the woodwork left right and centre, and I lose what little hope I was still clinging to.

I didn't hear about THIS part. More shark-jumping. Maybe they're just doing everything they can to ensure that there ISN'T a seventh season.

[ghyste.livejournal.com]

If you read upthread, you'll also see that Dean tells Sam he spent the whole year not exactly in domestic bliss

I agree that nothing could be less admirable than the way Sam jumped into bed with Ruby when Dean’s corpse was barely cold. However, whilst I could believe that Dean spent the year wallowing in despair if he’d only spent a short while with Lisa or was just there sharing friendship and mutual comfort, I’m going to take some convincing if they want me to buy into the idea that between Dean’s drunken crying jags and suicidal attempts to get Sam back he and Lisa somehow had time to stage an epic romance that took them from virtual strangers to being loved up enough to tie the knot. Of course, Dean could have married her without being in love with her, but unless they work really hard at explaining why that happened (which they wouldn’t) it’ll just make him look like a shit.

previously unseen relations popping out of the woodwork left right and centre, and I lose what little hope I was still clinging to.

I didn't hear about THIS part. More shark-jumping. Maybe they're just doing everything they can to ensure that there ISN'T a seventh season

Kripke said in an interview (the same one that talked about exploring the origins of the monsters): “Remember, it’s not the Winchesters who are famous hunters, it’s the Campbells. And we are saying that the Campbells are part of a time-line of hunters that have been there since the country’s origins. As Sera put it, they were hacking heads of vampires on the Mayflower. For Sam and Dean to really tap into a family history, which they never knew they had and again never really investigated before, is pretty interesting to us.” So far confirmed as recurring characters are Dead!Grandad and a hitherto unseen Campbell cousin played by Corin Nemec. How Cousin Oliver Christian escaped the cull of Mary’s friends and family has not been explained.

who cares if Sam is special or not?

Sera Gamble’s libido, apparently.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Okay, well now I'm hearing that the marriage thing was meant in a figurative, common-law sort of way. But even if they did really get married, it doesn't necessarily mean that they staged a gala wedding at which Dean blithely partied all night -- nor does a wedding imply epic romance in and of itself. I can imagine Lisa planning a wedding and Dean just numbly going along with it because he would have thought he was somehow honoring Sam's dying wish by doing so. Though why any woman, especially one with a young child, would want to marry someone who was so clearly troubled and riddled with secrets is just one of so many things about Lisa that points to exactly how poorly conceived the whole Lisa thing was from the get-go.

I'm not bothered by the idea of Lisa and Dean getting married (i.e. having a wedding), I'm bothered by the idea of them being married because that indicates a level of commitment that's going to make Lisa and Ben even more problematic, and make Dean's sudden check-out even harder to sell. Ugh, it's all just such a mess.

And we are saying that the Campbells are part of a time-line of hunters that have been there since the country’s origins. As Sera put it, they were hacking heads of vampires on the Mayflower.

I love that Sera is thinking about vampires on the Mayflower instead of what a mess she's got on her hands -- a mess she played a big part in creating. Hearing them talk about hunter history makes me dread that we might be in store for some sort of period flashbacks like what her old partner Raelle Tucker is doing over at True Blood. That may work on True Blood but...costume drama is pretty high on my list of things I never want to see on SPN.

How Cousin Oliver Christian escaped the cull of Mary’s friends and family has not been explained.

Well, let's face it -- nothing about the supposed mass slaughter of Mary's friends and family was ever explained. Since there are now Campbell cousins coming out of the woodwork, I guess we'll have to assume that whole thing never even happened.

[ghyste.livejournal.com]

Okay, well now I'm hearing that the marriage thing was meant in a figurative, common-law sort of way.

I’ve seen fannish speculation that Edlund’s “wife” comment (and, presumably, Lisa being pictured as part of the Winchester Family in the TV Guide Special) wasn’t meant in the legal/religious sense, but I’ve not seen anything from the creators to that effect.

But even if they did really get married, it doesn't necessarily mean that they staged a gala wedding at which Dean blithely partied all night -- nor does a wedding imply epic romance in and of itself.

In real life people get married for loads of reasons, many of which are very pragmatic. This, however, is a TV show on the CW Network. To my mind, in CW land we have three options:

1. Dean and Lisa marry because they’re in lurve. Given Dean’s state of mind and the fact that they’ve only known each other for a handful of days at the end of S5, their relationship would need to go on quite a journey to get them to the altar. This seems to rule out the notion that Dean spent the year grieving for Sam and trying to get him back.
2. Dean marries Lisa without loving her, maybe due to feelings of obligation (whether to her, Ben or his promise to Sam). This has a good deal of potential to make him look like a shit in the hands of this writing team.
3. Lisa forces Dean into marriage (covertly or overtly). This would definitely make her look like a shit, and a stupid one at that.

The spoilers about the fact that for the first time in his life Dean has someone he loves to worry about when he’s hunting (yeah, I know) seem to suggest that they’re going for number one. That, and the fact that there have been several quotes from the writers about how Lisa and Ben are going to stick around for the season (her actress is a recurring and they’re looking for another for Ben) and that Dean will “keep the home fires burning” also suggest that there isn’t going to be a sudden check out. After all, who needs Dean to be out and about being Dean when Sam is going to be Dean this Season?

I love that Sera is thinking about vampires on the Mayflower instead of what a mess she's got on her hands -- a mess she played a big part in creating

Let’s face it, if Sera planned on fixing things then she wouldn’t be going for the cheap cop-out of the time-jump.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

The time jump isn't a copout in and of itself -- sometimes it can be really effective, even necessary. Mad Men's fourth season just opened a year after the events of the season three finale and it made perfect sense for them to do that. We need to know where the events of that finale led the characters, but we didn't need to be with them every step of the way. Similarly, I don't feel like I needed to see what's been going on with Dean for the past 12 months, since I wouldn't want to watch Dean trying to adjust to his newfound domesticity while part of him is still tormented over losing Sam. I'm fine with finding out about that stuff in retrospect. In the right hands, the time jump can really work.

But yeah, we don't have the right hands here. Mad Men is so clever that you can pick up with those characters a whole year later and somehow feel like you've lived through every minute of that year with them. We're not going to get that with SPN. We're going to get a Sam who managed to shake off Lucifer and bust himself out of hell with no explanation. We're going to get bullshit "role reversal" in which Dean is the family man and reluctant hunter and Sam is the badass warrior. And then we're going to be launched full-throttle into a rudderless season about monster backstories, Campbell family trees and Dean & Lisa Winchester's home fires. What cracks me up is Jared's comment that this season marks a return to the show that he and Jensen "signed on for." Really, Jared? THIS is the show you signed on for? Because this sure as hell doesn't sound like the show I signed on for.

I swear, given the disdain the writers seem to have shown towards the audience from time to time, it's like they're trying to do everything in their power to cram as much unappealing junk into this season as they can, just for shits and giggles. It all makes me wish that the show really had ended last year. Then Eric "people will bitch" Kripke could have written a real series finale, not that half-assed mashup of one, and the show could've at least had a chance of going out with a great bang instead of some pathetic whimper.

[ghyste.livejournal.com]

What cracks me up is Jared's comment that this season marks a return to the show that he and Jensen "signed on for." Really, Jared? THIS is the show you signed on for? Because this sure as hell doesn't sound like the show I signed on for.

At the risk of sounding mean to Jared, since S6 seems to be trying to put Sam front and centre as the star of the show maybe this is the show that he signed on for but didn't get because of Dean's unexpected popularity.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Aha, but then he added that this was the show Jensen signed on for. So there. I think they're all bloody full of shit at this point.

Woman, what time do you get up in the morning? Every time I manage to stay up past midnight you're online. You're getting up and I'm going to bed!

[ghyste.livejournal.com]

I get up at 4.30am. Tragic I know, but the only way to have a reasonably civilised journey into London these days is to start it before six.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

My GOD. How long is your commute?

[ghyste.livejournal.com]

Its about an hour and a half if the trains are running on time.

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

Heh! I guess no one told Jensen he was the sidekick when he started out. Now he knows better. :P

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

Sorry to interrupt but I just saw this. I dunno if this clarifies anything really, but from a round-table interview with Sera Gamble:

So Dean is not married?
He’s living with her.

How old is the daughter?
Son. He’s 12.

Will they be a part of the show?
They are part of the show after the first episode.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

They are part of the show after the first episode.

Sigh.

You know, what really bothers me is that I know that when I criticize Lisa's addition as a regular cast member, I'll be branded as a hater who doesn't want any "girl cooties" getting in the way of her sex fantasies about Jensen Ackles.

The truth is (and I said this repeatedly last year) that Dean and Sam's relationship had so deteriorated that I would much rather see Dean wind up with someone who loved him rather than spending the rest of his life with Sam...or alone for that matter. To me, that would have been a perfect way to END the show. Emphasis on END.

The show I loved was about two guys leading a gritty, off-the-grid, dangerous life on the road -- it wasn't about a family man trying to reconcile his domestic obligations with his offbeat career. And now, with the permanent addition of Lisa and Ben, that's what the show is going to be about, at least as far as Dean is concerned. To me, this means turning Dean into a whole different character, and SPN into a whole different show -- one that they're going to have to pad with a lot of fluff about unexpected cousins and Bobby Singer and monster backstories. There were already enough damn filler episodes on this show when the apocalypse was bearing down on them...it sounds like from here on out, it's going to be nothing but filler.

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

Well I guess the "real" story is over because Dean finally learned that nothing says unconditional love like getting your face pounded in and Sam was so inspired by a toy soldier that he fell in a hole and saved the world.

All of season 6 is just filler at this point. Or as Kripke calls it, "the sequel."

I have a lot of worries about how badly Dean is going to come off looking when he ends up leaving Lisa and Ben who he has bonded with. But at this point, I would rather see him building relationships with almost anyone but Sam. *shrug*

[oselle.livejournal.com]

From what I've heard, I don't get the impression that Dean is going to leave Lisa and Ben. I guess they're just going to tell the kid that "Dad" travels a lot on business or something horrid like that.

Kripke called it "the sequel?" For real? He's a fuckin idiot.

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

Yeah he said it. Gamble too, I think.

I actually think Lisa and Ben will only be in the first 3 episodes and then Dean and Sam will be back in the Impala together. Sera kept saying something about nothing being what it seems or something. I'm thinking some kind of freaky fever-dream or Hell-AU for Sam or something. I did get the impression that the family man thing was only going to be at the beginning of the season and then it's back to MOWs and long-lost-not-quite-dead-yet relatives. But who knows.

[mangokulfi.livejournal.com]

OK now Sera is saying that Lisa will be in the first half of the season so just ignore my last comment. It would be nice if they didn't contradict themselves and each other from interview to interview. *eyeroll*

[andromakhe001.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to say that is exactly how I feel. Exactly. I don't hate Lisa. In fact I like Lisa but with the passion of a thousand suns burning I do NOT want "domesticated family man Dean struggling to balance family and hunting". I LIKED Dean being on the fringes of society, in the shadows, not having those things because he's a hunter devoted you know SAVING people. I liked "life off the grid, dangerous life on the road" and have no interest in Supernatural: The One Tree Hill Years(complete with adolescent angst).

Not to mention the Very Special Episodes dealing with Ben - let's see "Ben's in danger from monsters", "Dean must try to decide will he make the soccer game or hunt the rugaru", "Ben is sick and possibly dying, Dean's really really upset and will this be the episode where we get the blood test that tells us Ben really IS Dean's son?". You know they will not be able to resist that sort of stuff. I don't know what happens to TV writers but a person they seem totally unable to resist such cliches.

BTW, with regards to the EW article from over a year ago. I am positive that Jensen was not talking about himself when it came to the Brinks truck. He's talking about Kripke. Jensen and Jared had six year contracts, as long as the show was renewed, they would be here this season regardless. No Brinks truck necessary. Kripke was the one with the 5 year contract who would need a Brinks Truck to keep doing what he was doing. Jensen is even quoted as saying this in a paragraph about Kripke.

As well the interview for that article was done near the end of the season when they are always exhausted and I'm sure more prone to thinking of the "grass is greener" just based on that alone.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

A friend of mine is completely convinced that the show will try to bring Ben into the hunter fold. At 12 years old, he's almost a teenager and the writers might think they'd be introducing some fresh blood into the show with a younger character that "the kids" could relate to. I'd be a lot more nervous about this if we had time-jumped three or four years into the future and Ben was suddenly sixteen or something. Then I'd be certain that's what they were planning to do...especially since we've already seen an eight-year-old Ben acting heroically in "The Kids Are All Right." What I have no doubt about is that we will find out that Ben is Dean's real son. I mean, I'd be willing to make book on that.

Regarding the EW article, I'm willing to concede that Jensen might have been talking about Kripke, not himself, regarding the Brinks truck comment. Nevertheless, today is the first time I've ever heard of either Jared or Jensen having a six-year contract.

[andromakhe001.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of people go by the old standards, it used to be standard to sign actors to five year contracts. But that started to change by the late 90's early 00's and the WB/CW's standard contract for the actors is usually a 6 year contract from what I've read.

And yeah I mean seriously can they please try not to fall into every single cliche. The Cousin Oliver trope NEVER works and that is what Ben is. Man it's almost enough to make me wish they both burn on the ceiling if only because then they won't be able to turn him into a hunter in training if he's dead but then I feel guilty for wishing for the death of a kid character. :)

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Actually if you read downthread, it appears that a literal Cousin Oliver is going to show up, in the person of long-lost Campbell cousin (from Mary's side of the family). Even if you don't mind handwaving the fact that all of Mary's friends and family were supposed to have died mysteriously (which I suppose we have to handwave since the writers certainly forgot all about it), it's still hard to imagine what purpose this new character will serve.

[cannnit.livejournal.com]

I haven`t read the article you refer to in Entertainment Weekly, however they are in a very hard business, and to stay in this show due to the money they earn is perfectable understandable. The alternative might very well be unemployment...

As for complaining, .... I don`t know, I really need to read the article to form an opinion about that. It doesn`t sound like Jensen to me. He has always come across as very likable and down to earth. And in all the interviews I have read and seen with him, he has never once given the impression that he is the complaining type.

I guess however, that working the way he has done the last years, he is allowed to say something "complainiory" (I know it is not a word) about it.

What I love about Ackles, is that he always talks highly about his co workers, and the way he views the production team as a family.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

If you're interested I can pull some quotes from the EW article. Maybe those quotes had been taken out of context somehow, and in a written article we don't get the advantage of tone of voice or expression, but it sure sounded like complaining to me.

These days especially, everyone is in a "hard business" and unemployment is a far more terrifying prospect for most of us than it is for someone who, financially speaking, probably would never have to work another day in his life if he didn't want to. As far as the hard work goes? I could list a dozen different occupations that are harder than what he does, and millions of light years away from being as rewarding. I'm sorry, I'm sure he's a pretty nice guy, but as long as there are coal miners and waitresses and firefighters and billions of other people slogging away for just-getting-by (or even not-getting-by) wages, I have really low tolerance for complaints from someone who's won life's lottery the way he has.

[cannnit.livejournal.com]

I see your point, and I do agree to some point. Until proven wrong about Jensen and his moral in this connection, I choose to believe that maybe the article wasn`t accurate in it`s quoting, and there is the aspect of voice of expression as you mention.

I asked a bit around, and I was told that there were some issues with the accuracy of the article because it said that the J`s had a 5 years contract and had to sign up for a 6th. Later fandom learned that they had a 6 year contract, which led to the suspicion of inaccurate things in the article.

How realiable is Entertainment Weekly really?

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I'd say that EW is considered a fairly respectable magazine as far as its coverage of the entertainment business goes. It's not a gossip rag like The National Enquirer. The reporter who wrote the article spent several days on the set, interviewing Kripke, Jared and Jensen. Jensen's comments were in quotations, so if the reporter has any sort of integrity, I'd imagine those were things he actually said, not her interpretations of what he said. I'd heard for years, long before that EW article, that Jared and Jensen had a five-year contract that was based on Kripke's five-year plan for the show. I've never heard anywhere that they actually had a six-year contract, and I never heard anyone from the show deny or correct anything that was in that article.

From the article:

" 'Despite what the network and studio may or may not want, I don't have more than five seasons of story,' says the producer (Kripke), whose contract -- along with his stars' -- expires at the end of season 5. If the powers that be want the show to continue, he says, they'll have to be willing to do it without him...With the weight of their workload and Manners' death casting a pall on the set, Ackles and Padalecki are also eager to move on, even as they affirm their love for the show. 'We don't live at home. We don't sleep in our own beds. Our families aren't here. Our friends aren't here. Our girlfriends aren't here,' says Ackles. "To do it for another five years, or whatever, I don't know if I could handle it.' Padalecki concurs: 'I enjoy working but what's the point?'

That doesn't mean The CW will just let their growing cult hit go. 'If the show's doing well, we would go on, I'm sure, says CW entertainment president Dawn Ostroff, who declines to elaborate on whether the network would try to woo Kripke to stay. 'It's premature for us to even address that.' Either way, Ostroff should be prepared to open her checkbook at those season 6 negotiations: According to Ackles, 'They'd have to back up a Brinks truck.' "

[andromakhe001.livejournal.com]

Oh and this:

"Some of this stuff sounds so bad, so much like my "worst case scenario" for Season 6, "

I swear to God I said almost the exact same thing someplace. I was like "Every time I think I imagined the worst they would dare go, they manage to surpass it". :)

I am just glad that none of these people(the writers) are part of my family because their definition of it seems to be incredibly screwed up. They also don't know their own characters. "Dean had to learn to love Sam enough to go to the graveyard" WTF? I have ZERO doubt, after watching Season 1, that Dean would have gone to that graveyard in Scene 1, Episode 1 of Season 1, if that had been the starting point.

In point of fact Dean already did nearly all this, on a slightly smaller scale, in Born Under a Bad Sign, in Season 2. The only reason Dean pulled back in Season 4 is because Sam TRIED TO STRANGLE HIM, after spending a whole year doing nothing but lie and disregard Dean and choosing a demon over Dean. The fact is most people would have kicked Sam to the curb LONG before Dean even contemplated allowing Sam to go off with Ruby to do whatever he was going to do(which Bobby reamed him out for but which Bobby himself had suggested doing only the day earlier).

[oselle.livejournal.com]

They also don't know their own characters.

This bothers me more than anything else. Especially since I think it's not so much that they don't know their characters, as that they're willing to change their characters to suit whatever they want to happen in the show at any time...or to respond to legitimate complaints that the audience has. I think Kripke came up with this line about Dean in response to complaints that Dean didn't really figure into the storyarc's endgame: it was his way of trying to prove that Dean had been on an emotional journey of his own, one that brought him to a place where he could truly love Sam. It's as if Kripke himself forgot that Dean had sacrificed himself for Sam only a few years before, and probably would have done so at just about any point in his life.

The rift between Sam and Dean was handled very poorly throughout seasons 4 and 5. From what I've heard the writers say (this quote from Kripke being a perfect example) I think that the writers somehow thought they were portraying Sam as the injured party and Dean as the one who had to overcome his anger and selfishness and "learn to love" his brother. The most die-hard Samgirls may have gone along with that ride but the rest of us were left scratching our heads, and wondering why Dean was always getting yelled at for not being nicer to his poor kid brother. Bobby's lecture to Dean at the end of season 5, about how everyone is so hard on Sam, was probably the pinnacle of this disconnect between the writers and the audience. As I said at the time, I literally had no idea what Bobby was talking about there, because I hadn't seen any evidence, in five whole years, that either he or Dean (or anyone else) had ever been relentlessly hard on Sam.