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oselle ([personal profile] oselle) wrote2011-06-26 05:21 pm
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Castiel



Posting a pic of Misha Collins in a sarong yesterday led to a lengthy conversation with [livejournal.com profile] insight2 that included a link to [livejournal.com profile] aesc's monumental Casifesto, which I'm sure some of you have read, but I had not.

I loved the Casifesto but I was getting a little hot under the collar while reading it, because it demonstrated something I've believed for a long time -- that Castiel is one of the things SPN really got right. From how the character was envisioned to the casting of the pitch-perfect Misha Collins to the way the character was allowed to develop, they really got it right.

So now, of course, they're going to flush it.

Of course, I don't know what they're planning to do with Castiel. I actually don't think they're going to kill him off, but I do think they may either keep him around for some occasional guest appearances (less than Bobby but more than, say, Rufus). Guessing aside, it's a fact that Misha's no longer a regular cast member; it's also a fact that Sera Gamble's reaction to any potential backlash from the diminishing of Castiel's role boiled down to a shrug and a not-very-promising promise of "stories that are fresh" and not "redundant."

Because I suppose that finding a continuing role for one of the best characters they ever managed to create would just be "redundant."

I am of two minds about this. On the one hand, I'd rather they write Castiel out if they don't know what to do with him.

On the other hand -- why don't they know what to do with him? Are they really so lacking in imagination that the emergence of this wonderful character -- that they themselves created -- has become nothing but a burdensome complication? Something to be disposed of?

Reading the Casifesto, I realized that Castiel is the only character on the show who's had a genuine, meaningful arc. Sam was supposed to have an arc, but for the past few years he's just wavered back and forth between various degrees of corruption and self-pity, coming out more or less blameless and unaltered when it's all over. I love Dean to pieces but in spite of how much Jensen has to offer, the character has unwisely been held back from any significant change, other than becoming more melancholy and self-loathing.

The show's most exciting character arc to date has belonged to Castiel. He went from being the completely faithful servant of an unseen God, to being an apostate who used his newfound sense of self-determination first to help avert the apocalypse and then to wage civil war in heaven, ultimately at great cost to himself. And of course, along the way, he fell in love, lost his faith, lost his grace, and discovered the value of free will, both his own and all of mankind's. Castiel's been a busy guy the past few years.

I don't think you can underestimate how much this has to do with Misha Collins. I remember reading that initially, Misha was only signed on for the first half of Season 4 -- if Misha hadn't brought so much to the show, Castiel probably would have disappeared a long time ago. Just as Jensen elevated Dean way above his original "sidekick" status, Misha poured such life into this character that I suspect it was his performance that influenced and steered the writing, not the other way around.

And therein lies the problem, I think. Misha was too good for his own good. With his help, the character grew into something the writers couldn't manage or imagine, and they literally don't know what to do with him. And so they have declared him "redundant."

Part of me thinks that it's a writer's prerogative to stay true to the original vision. Severus Snape became a wildly popular character in the Harry Potter books, but he wound up having little to do with the ultimate showdown, and I think many readers were disappointed by the skimpiness of his backstory. But while J.K. Rowling could (and maybe should) have realized how much potential Snape had from the start, his importance was most likely not part of her original vision and so she was wise not to enlarge his role suddenly just because he had become popular. A writer risks throwing herself completely off course if she responds to reader influence that way.

In SPN's case, though, I really don't know how much "vision" there is. It's such a work in progress and honestly, they usually don't know until spring of each year if there's even going to be more story to tell. That means the story is fluid, it has the ability to shift and change course with each new season, and even midseason -- so when these writers decide that they have to fade Castiel out, it's not because Castiel was never part of some nonexistent vision, but because they're creatively tapped out. And frankly, the word "lazy" comes to mind. Altogether, SPN has to have -- what? -- nearly a dozen writers and producers? And none of them could take up the challenge to work with a character who had evolved from the ground up into one of the very best on the show? One of the things -- one of the few things -- they've really gotten right all these years?

It's a shame. It is really a shame.
ext_6866: (Good point.)

[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com 2011-06-26 09:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow, it really is amazing to think of how Castiel has developed from where he started--and organically too. I know I've heard that originally a lot of what he did was supposed to be Anna, but you can see why it was more interesting to have it be Castiel. For the first time instead of having a supporting character who was static and influenced the story a certain way they had a supporting character who was changing over the course of the arc in a wa that influenced everything.

This past season his story was the only one that made sense to me, even if it happened offscreen. You can actually see it going from one point to another in retrospect where Dean's and Sam's seems more influenced by the show trying to maneuver everybody into the spot where they want them, like Dean going back on the road or Sam having his big moment of talking to himself and announcing he won't leave his brother out there alone even if it doesn't really sound like there's much he has to be there for.

[identity profile] tazical.livejournal.com 2011-06-26 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
I still have half a hope that they're just getting their giggle on by fucking with our heads over this whole Castiel thing. Reducing his already limited role just makes no business sense to me, not when they created this wildly popular character more or less by accident, which is something other writers try (and fail) to do for years and years on end. Misha's twitter account alone has something like 1/8 of their ratings audience, which is promotional gold to networks, so I'm still praying that all of this hoopla is a result of them actually realising what a valuable character Castiel is, rather than an attempt to boot him.

Therefore, I'm hoping for an intriguing god plot for Season 7 and then a mortal redemption plot if we get a Season 8. That way it solves the two main problems they have with Castiel. 1. That he's by default a deux ex machina character who undermines Sam & Dean's narrative purpose and 2) that keeping Castiel as an angel means they have to keep finding ways to tie Heaven into the season arc, which they clearly want to steer away from. I'll probably be disappointed, as usual, but a girl's gotta have a liferaft, right?

As you said, there are plenty of interesting things they can still do with the character, and of course it doesn't automatically mean that keeping him around would take any focus away from Sam and Dean, like some people seem to fear. My major wish for this show is that they'll finally figure out how to write episodes with a team rather than a duo. I've noticed that I tend to enjoy the few episodes when they've managed to hit that note far more than episodes when it's just Sam & Dean. Mostly because, well, Sam and Dean get depressing after a while. I miss the comedy/tragedy balance of the earlier seasons, and they can still do that when they add a few other characters into the mix to offset the emo drama.

Interestingly, the new CW boss seems very pro-SPN. He also appears to have a history with genre shows and knowing what works. Hopefully he'll be smart enough not to get rid of characters who work.

[identity profile] amber1960.livejournal.com 2011-06-27 06:44 am (UTC)(link)
"I honestly don't think that anyone knows the exact size of SPN's audience." I am certain they don't, though things like the TV guide poll should give them some idea of the global spread they have (presumably backed by DVD sales). The FB group I joint admin has members from all over the world including India, Malaysia, Brazil, Argentina, Australia as well as just about every European country and North America - it is quite gobsmacking really. Someone told me that Jus in Bello in Rome was attended by 45 different nationalities...

I don't know if having Cas and Bobby added to the Winchester family dynamic makes it an ensemble - I don't think it does, for me it just adds depth to the relationships.

I am worried that the writers seem to think they can take the show back to Season 1 or 2, when the characters have moved on and the story arcs that tied those seasons together have all been played out. I suppose I am worried full stop.

[identity profile] mulder200.livejournal.com 2011-06-27 07:42 am (UTC)(link)
The show's most exciting character arc to date has belonged to Castiel. He went from being the completely faithful servant of an unseen God, to being an apostate who used his newfound sense of self-determination first to help avert the apocalypse and then to wage civil war in heaven, ultimately at great cost to himself. And of course, along the way, he fell in love, lost his faith, lost his grace, and discovered the value of free will, both his own and all of mankind's. Castiel's been a busy guy the past few years.

Bingo! While Sam and Dean's story lines have pretty much grown stale and redundant IMO Castiel has grown and changed for the better. Which may be part of the problem. When you you're supporting characters come off better than your main ones, you have a serious problem on your hands.

[identity profile] kinkthatwinked.livejournal.com 2011-06-27 08:08 am (UTC)(link)
I have a theory, one that pisses me off: the writers saw Castiel as such a secondary, throwaway character that all the major, life-altering curveballs they threw at him was basically just them pissing around. Sure, we’ll break his faith in God, push him into turning his back on all his brethren, strip him of his powers or give him unlimited power on a whim, why not? It’s not like the writers really have to deal with the repercussions, he’s not one of the ‘main’ characters.

Sam and Dean, however, are the show’s constant, and I fear the writers have taken that word a little too literally: they must always remain the same ‘ol boys that the fans fell in love with in season one. Tortured Sam must always be tottering on the edge of evil but never falling over, and Dean must forever be his endearingly loyal, self-sacrificing, self-loathing, lame joke-cracking sidekick. You’re right, they really wouldn’t know how to write Sam truly embracing his nature or Dean coming into his own – probably why Sam’s psychic powers have once again conveniently disappeared.

Is it any wonder that the writers obviously have no idea how to bring the Winchesters back to some true solidarity after the season four fallout? There’s no way a writer could without having the characters change and mature, and possibly have the relationship dynamic itself change as well.

Christ, take a moment to imagine how much John Winchester would have been dumbed down if he’d lived and been left in these writers’ hands. Maybe killing Cas off is for the best, before they fuck it up.

[identity profile] insight2.livejournal.com 2011-06-27 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Posting a pic of Misha Collins in a sarong yesterday led to a lengthy conversation with [info]insight2

*glare* You make our convo sound so ridonkulous! Then again I am always partial to Misha in a pretty dress/skirt ♥. You have of course seen the pic of Misha in a bridal dress ♥ I think it makes a nice matching set with the one of Jensen in a kimono. Sometimes those two are my best girls ♥

If Show ends up writing Cas out in s7 I do so very much hope that Cas ends up FUCKING EVERYONE OVER FOR IT. I mean he's already way ahead of the curve with it- since he's already fucked Anna, Zachariah, Balthazar, Uriel, Dean, Sam, Bobby, Raphael, and Crowley over. Basically I want Cas to fuck everyone on Show so he goes out with a BANG. This badass angelic motherfucker will strike like the dark horse/viper that he is- TEAM CAS KILLS EVERYONE.

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IN THIS WAY, I TRUST CAS WILL GIVE ME- A CAS!GIRL- MY VENGEANCE.

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Just kidding- although, I must say that the above concept is more than a little enticing-

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It's especially enticing when there are Cashaters wandering around being hilariously petty. I want to stick the below on my profile page because it cracks me up, Cas' expression is, like, AND YOUR OPINION EVEN MATTERS WHY-

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Confession: I liked S6. I can feel your estimation of me fizzling away- if I even had it to begin with *g* S6 might have been messy and all over the place but I liked what they did with Cas, how unpredictable his characterization has become. Perhaps you might feel I am trying to spin it in a positive light but I genuinely like that Cas went darkside. I see his arcs like this:-

s4= angel!Cas
s5= human!cas
s6= assassin/revolutionary/kin-slayer!cas (when he was bad he was very very bad)
s7= god!cas

IT IS LIKE HE GETS TO TRY ON ALL THESE DIFFERENT DRESSES/HATS ON SHOW *LOVES* I LOVE HOW HE IS UNEXPECTED/UNPREDICTABLE LIKE THIS

(On the one truly serious note, I will say that I was pissed that they demoted Misha Collins' position in Show. He brings in hella revenue/new blood/freshness to Show- moreso than Jared Padalecki I would say.)

Finally, I do want to know why no-one else in fandom is giving recognition to the fact that Castiel's plan at the end of S6 was strategically brilliant- I have so much unrepentant joy over that. He was never going to win in a straight fight with Raphael so he found a way to subvert the fight and make it on his own terms *admires Cas*

[identity profile] kinkthatwinked.livejournal.com 2011-06-28 12:12 am (UTC)(link)
"All I want to know is if all-powerful Cas will make Dean his favorite plaything."

Now you've got me picturing Dean in some male version of Princess Leia's 'prisoner of Jabba the Hut' outfit, complete with the chain around his neck!

I feel so dirty. :)