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Castiel
Posting a pic of Misha Collins in a sarong yesterday led to a lengthy conversation with
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insight2 that included a link to aesc's monumental Casifesto, which I'm sure some of you have read, but I had not.I loved the Casifesto but I was getting a little hot under the collar while reading it, because it demonstrated something I've believed for a long time -- that Castiel is one of the things SPN really got right. From how the character was envisioned to the casting of the pitch-perfect Misha Collins to the way the character was allowed to develop, they really got it right.
So now, of course, they're going to flush it.
Of course, I don't know what they're planning to do with Castiel. I actually don't think they're going to kill him off, but I do think they may either keep him around for some occasional guest appearances (less than Bobby but more than, say, Rufus). Guessing aside, it's a fact that Misha's no longer a regular cast member; it's also a fact that Sera Gamble's reaction to any potential backlash from the diminishing of Castiel's role boiled down to a shrug and a not-very-promising promise of "stories that are fresh" and not "redundant."
Because I suppose that finding a continuing role for one of the best characters they ever managed to create would just be "redundant."
I am of two minds about this. On the one hand, I'd rather they write Castiel out if they don't know what to do with him.
On the other hand -- why don't they know what to do with him? Are they really so lacking in imagination that the emergence of this wonderful character -- that they themselves created -- has become nothing but a burdensome complication? Something to be disposed of?
Reading the Casifesto, I realized that Castiel is the only character on the show who's had a genuine, meaningful arc. Sam was supposed to have an arc, but for the past few years he's just wavered back and forth between various degrees of corruption and self-pity, coming out more or less blameless and unaltered when it's all over. I love Dean to pieces but in spite of how much Jensen has to offer, the character has unwisely been held back from any significant change, other than becoming more melancholy and self-loathing.
The show's most exciting character arc to date has belonged to Castiel. He went from being the completely faithful servant of an unseen God, to being an apostate who used his newfound sense of self-determination first to help avert the apocalypse and then to wage civil war in heaven, ultimately at great cost to himself. And of course, along the way, he fell in love, lost his faith, lost his grace, and discovered the value of free will, both his own and all of mankind's. Castiel's been a busy guy the past few years.
I don't think you can underestimate how much this has to do with Misha Collins. I remember reading that initially, Misha was only signed on for the first half of Season 4 -- if Misha hadn't brought so much to the show, Castiel probably would have disappeared a long time ago. Just as Jensen elevated Dean way above his original "sidekick" status, Misha poured such life into this character that I suspect it was his performance that influenced and steered the writing, not the other way around.
And therein lies the problem, I think. Misha was too good for his own good. With his help, the character grew into something the writers couldn't manage or imagine, and they literally don't know what to do with him. And so they have declared him "redundant."
Part of me thinks that it's a writer's prerogative to stay true to the original vision. Severus Snape became a wildly popular character in the Harry Potter books, but he wound up having little to do with the ultimate showdown, and I think many readers were disappointed by the skimpiness of his backstory. But while J.K. Rowling could (and maybe should) have realized how much potential Snape had from the start, his importance was most likely not part of her original vision and so she was wise not to enlarge his role suddenly just because he had become popular. A writer risks throwing herself completely off course if she responds to reader influence that way.
In SPN's case, though, I really don't know how much "vision" there is. It's such a work in progress and honestly, they usually don't know until spring of each year if there's even going to be more story to tell. That means the story is fluid, it has the ability to shift and change course with each new season, and even midseason -- so when these writers decide that they have to fade Castiel out, it's not because Castiel was never part of some nonexistent vision, but because they're creatively tapped out. And frankly, the word "lazy" comes to mind. Altogether, SPN has to have -- what? -- nearly a dozen writers and producers? And none of them could take up the challenge to work with a character who had evolved from the ground up into one of the very best on the show? One of the things -- one of the few things -- they've really gotten right all these years?
It's a shame. It is really a shame.
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This past season his story was the only one that made sense to me, even if it happened offscreen. You can actually see it going from one point to another in retrospect where Dean's and Sam's seems more influenced by the show trying to maneuver everybody into the spot where they want them, like Dean going back on the road or Sam having his big moment of talking to himself and announcing he won't leave his brother out there alone even if it doesn't really sound like there's much he has to be there for.
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I don't know what the plan would have been for Anna if Castiel hadn't been around, but I doubt they could have resisted turning her into an explicit love interest -- and that would have instantly killed her potential. It may seem hypocritical for me to say that, since I so enjoy the tangible affection between Castiel and Dean, but the big difference is that Castiel was never created to be a love interest at all, and so that intense relationship between him and Dean was allowed to develop and flourish on its own, without a lot of forced sexual tension to get in the way.
Assuming that Anna would have been introduced into the story the same way that she was, even without Castiel, you can immediately see how she never could have functioned the same way as Castiel. She was immediately starting off from a place not of power but of dependence. Even when she remembered who she was, she still retained the wide-eyed softness that the writers obviously thought she needed so that she could be a proper romantic partner. I see little way she could have gone from that to being the intimidating yet conflicted ally that Castiel became. I did think that Anna fared better in her later appearances, but really, the mere fact of her being female and pretty would have been a huge stumbling block for her as a character.
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Therefore, I'm hoping for an intriguing god plot for Season 7 and then a mortal redemption plot if we get a Season 8. That way it solves the two main problems they have with Castiel. 1. That he's by default a deux ex machina character who undermines Sam & Dean's narrative purpose and 2) that keeping Castiel as an angel means they have to keep finding ways to tie Heaven into the season arc, which they clearly want to steer away from. I'll probably be disappointed, as usual, but a girl's gotta have a liferaft, right?
As you said, there are plenty of interesting things they can still do with the character, and of course it doesn't automatically mean that keeping him around would take any focus away from Sam and Dean, like some people seem to fear. My major wish for this show is that they'll finally figure out how to write episodes with a team rather than a duo. I've noticed that I tend to enjoy the few episodes when they've managed to hit that note far more than episodes when it's just Sam & Dean. Mostly because, well, Sam and Dean get depressing after a while. I miss the comedy/tragedy balance of the earlier seasons, and they can still do that when they add a few other characters into the mix to offset the emo drama.
Interestingly, the new CW boss seems very pro-SPN. He also appears to have a history with genre shows and knowing what works. Hopefully he'll be smart enough not to get rid of characters who work.
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I don't think this is a gag or some kind of deliberate misinformation to fake out the audience -- all that stuff about Misha's contract, it's just way too elaborate and I don't think it would be permissible within the business to purposely start a false rumor that an actor's part had been reduced. If something does change with Castiel's status, it will be a recent development based on the reaction to the news.
Misha's twitter account alone has something like 1/8 of their ratings audience
Good lord, how do they even measure something like that? I'd imagine that Misha's Twitter includes fans who don't watch the show when it airs, and might not even watch it on DVR, so they aren't counted in the show's ratings. I honestly don't think that anyone knows the exact size of SPN's audience.
Therefore, I'm hoping for an intriguing god plot for Season 7 and then a mortal redemption plot if we get a Season 8.
The problem with this as I see it, is that it would require making one, or possibly two seasons all but revolve around Castiel. And I just can't imagine them going in this direction, especially when Sera Gamble has said repeatedly that the show's focus needs to stay on Sam and Dean -- which is something that I think a lot of viewers agree with. Whenever I've read viewer comments about the show outside of LJ, there seems to be a fair percentage of viewers who say they'll be happy to see Castiel go so that the show can "get back" to Sam and Dean -- as if Castiel had been dominating the story all year. I think it may at times seem like he is, just because his part of the story is often the only one that makes an impact.
they'll finally figure out how to write episodes with a team rather than a duo.
Ensemble shows don't really resonate with me -- it's a big reason why I've never been able to connect with anything by Joss Whedon, but shows like SPN and The X-Files really sucked me in. That said, I hardly think that incorporating one more character (and an established character at that) into the Winchester universe would turn the show into an ensemble!
Interestingly, the new CW boss seems very pro-SPN.
I was encouraged by his history at ABC, especially his connection to Lost. I'm hoping he understands the unique and powerful relationship that an audience has with a genre show. I enjoy the idea of him calling Sera and Eric on the carpet to explain the reasoning behind their plans for Castiel.
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No, me either. I'm absolutely sure that the part about Misha's contract is correct. However nobody's actually said that his role's being reduced, they're just jumping to conclusions that it is. We know the show had budget issues last year and Misha himself said that they paid him for doing a lot of episodes that he wasn't in, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 'demotion' is more for financial reasons than an actual decision to reduce Misha's role. Maybe he'll be in the same amount of episodes, maybe less, who knows? Either way, one thing's for sure, it's certainly got people freaking out over the hiatus, which is exactly what they want, right?
Good lord, how do they even measure something like that?
The official ratings are somewhere between 1.7-2.2 million, I seem to recall. Obviously the actual number of viewers is going to be far higher, but the ratings audience and demographic figures are the things that the moneycrunchers are interested in and therefore the things that TBTP base their decisions on. Ha, don't get me started on the massive flaws of the various ratings systems, we'll be here all day. :D
The point is, social media is a huge promotional tool for these companies. They spend millions trying to get their product names spread around. The CW accidentally struck gold when they created Castiel, and they did it again when Misha turned out to be an entertaining twitterer. Re-tweets, twitter trending, those magazines which print the best celebrity tweets of the week- all of that is extra publicity in core media of their target demographic which is a good financial reason to maintain Misha's role on the show.
The problem with this as I see it, is that it would require making one, or possibly two seasons all but revolve around Castiel.
I don't think it necessarily has to, and to be honest, I wouldn't want it to. When I say 'team' I guess I mean more along the lines of having Castiel and Bobby as occasional background characters who work with Sam and Dean rather than having them all standing around angsting at each other over their communication chasms. It gets boring. I think it's because I love Sam and Dean so much that I want them to have a support network, because the more the show keeps killing off and alienating people who care about them, the more fucked in the head and isolated they get.
I'd be happy if they make Castiel mortal, shunt him off to stay with Bobby and have them show up as and when they need them, much like Bobby does at the moment. It doesn't mean the season has to be about Castiel, it just means that he can have his own plotline quietly going on in parallel. Even the X-Files had supporting characters like Skinner and Krychek who managed to go off and have their own little plots going on without detracting from the importance of the main two characters.
As you say, there's a fair percentage of people who want the show to get back to good old-fashioned monster-hunting. A fair percentage of that fair percentage don't have any quarrels with Castiel as a character, they just have issues with the fact that as long as Castiel's an angel the show's stuck with angel-related storylines, which they're running out of. I can only see two ways of resolving that, either cut Castiel off from heaven or kill him.
I was encouraged by his history at ABC, especially his connection to Lost.
Jared said at a con that one of the first things that Mark Pedowitz did when he took the position was phone J2 and ask if they'd be up for an eighth season. If he's considering it this early I'd be very surprised if he's all gung-ho about reducing the role of one of the most popular characters. But who knows, they've done dumb shit before and I expect they'll do it again!
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That's true. I actually thought it was really strange that Misha was billed as a co-star this year instead of a guest star. Based on that, you would have thought at the start of the season that Castiel would have a much bigger role, which turned out not to be the case. In fact, his role was smaller than it had been during Seasons 4 and 5, when he was billed as a guest star. I think it again goes to show how poorly planned this season was -- they promoted Misha to co-star but then they hardly used him until the end of the season. I know he mentioned at some con that he was frustrated by the fact that after moving his family up to Vancouver, he wound up not working all that much, so even he had obviously been led to believe that his role was being expanded. So whatever the writers are planning at this point, it doesn't mean that's what will actually happen once the season gets going.
I can only see two ways of resolving that, either cut Castiel off from heaven or kill him.
Yet again, I have to lament the fact that they never chose to run with the apocalyptic storyline put forth by Ben Edlund in "The End." It would have taken heaven more or less out of the story (since all the angels had departed), made Castiel human, turned Sam into the BAMF they seem to want him to be, and given Dean (and Castiel by extension) a tangible goal. All while kicking tremendous amounts of ass and outfitting Jensen's thigh in some fine leather holstery (see icon). Win win win win win!
Jared said at a con that one of the first things that Mark Pedowitz did when he took the position was phone J2 and ask if they'd be up for an eighth season.
I just read in Media Life that one of Pedowitz's goals is to make the CW skew to the older end of the "Women 18-49" spectrum. I'm pretty sure that SPN is already attracting that audience (certainly all the fans I know are in that range), so there's no way Pedowitz can see it as anything but an asset that's worth keeping and, possibly, developing. Hopefully, that development will include holding the writers accountable and not letting them do dumb shit that can alienate the show's audience.
Re-tweets, twitter trending, those magazines which print the best celebrity tweets of the week- all of that is extra publicity in core media of their target demographic which is a good financial reason to maintain Misha's role on the show.
I agree. They couldn't even pay for that kind of free publicity.
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I don't know if having Cas and Bobby added to the Winchester family dynamic makes it an ensemble - I don't think it does, for me it just adds depth to the relationships.
I am worried that the writers seem to think they can take the show back to Season 1 or 2, when the characters have moved on and the story arcs that tied those seasons together have all been played out. I suppose I am worried full stop.
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It kind of astounds me that SPN now has such global popularity that it has conventions all over the world. Even a few years ago the only international convention they had was in the U.K. -- now they're in Italy, Spain, South America...I don't even know where!
I am worried that the writers seem to think they can take the show back to Season 1 or 2 when the characters have moved on and the story arcs that tied those seasons together have all been played out.
It seems to me that when people yearn for the feel of those early seasons, they forget that they weren't just a series of MoTW one-shots. There was always a strong, continuing mytharc, and I think the show needs that unless they want to turn it into a supernatural procedural, which I really don't want to happen.
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Bingo! While Sam and Dean's story lines have pretty much grown stale and redundant IMO Castiel has grown and changed for the better. Which may be part of the problem. When you you're supporting characters come off better than your main ones, you have a serious problem on your hands.
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The worst thing is that I think it happened by accident -- and that's probably why they really don't know what to do with Castiel now that he's outgrown whatever they intended for him.
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Sam and Dean, however, are the show’s constant, and I fear the writers have taken that word a little too literally: they must always remain the same ‘ol boys that the fans fell in love with in season one. Tortured Sam must always be tottering on the edge of evil but never falling over, and Dean must forever be his endearingly loyal, self-sacrificing, self-loathing, lame joke-cracking sidekick. You’re right, they really wouldn’t know how to write Sam truly embracing his nature or Dean coming into his own – probably why Sam’s psychic powers have once again conveniently disappeared.
Is it any wonder that the writers obviously have no idea how to bring the Winchesters back to some true solidarity after the season four fallout? There’s no way a writer could without having the characters change and mature, and possibly have the relationship dynamic itself change as well.
Christ, take a moment to imagine how much John Winchester would have been dumbed down if he’d lived and been left in these writers’ hands. Maybe killing Cas off is for the best, before they fuck it up.
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I don't think they were pissing around, but I do think that all of those things happened to Castiel because they were focused on turning him into an ally for Sam and Dean -- and they didn't really notice that all the while he was turning into a powerful character in his own right.
There’s no way a writer could without having the characters change and mature, and possibly have the relationship dynamic itself change as well.
I think they also have a fear of letting the show take itself too seriously. It's as if they think the only alternative to being tongue-in-cheek is wallowing in angst, so they'll dish out some angst and then defuse it with humor or whitewashing and I've always, always thought that this weakens the show. They can't tackle the stories they seem to want to tackle if they don't take them seriously.
Maybe killing Cas off is for the best, before they fuck it up.
That's really the only positive I can see to getting rid of Castiel or reducing his role. And it's really a rock-and-a-hard-place kind of positive.
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*glare* You make our convo sound so ridonkulous! Then again I am always partial to Misha in a pretty dress/skirt ♥. You have of course seen the pic of Misha in a bridal dress ♥ I think it makes a nice matching set with the one of Jensen in a kimono. Sometimes those two are my best girls ♥
If Show ends up writing Cas out in s7 I do so very much hope that Cas ends up FUCKING EVERYONE OVER FOR IT. I mean he's already way ahead of the curve with it- since he's already fucked Anna, Zachariah, Balthazar, Uriel, Dean, Sam, Bobby, Raphael, and Crowley over. Basically I want Cas to fuck everyone on Show so he goes out with a BANG. This badass angelic motherfucker will strike like the dark horse/viper that he is- TEAM CAS KILLS EVERYONE.
IN THIS WAY, I TRUST CAS WILL GIVE ME- A CAS!GIRL- MY VENGEANCE.
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Just kidding- although, I must say that the above concept is more than a little enticing-
It's especially enticing when there are Cashaters wandering around being hilariously petty. I want to stick the below on my profile page because it cracks me up, Cas' expression is, like, AND YOUR OPINION EVEN MATTERS WHY-
Confession: I liked S6. I can feel your estimation of me fizzling away- if I even had it to begin with *g* S6 might have been messy and all over the place but I liked what they did with Cas, how unpredictable his characterization has become. Perhaps you might feel I am trying to spin it in a positive light but I genuinely like that Cas went darkside. I see his arcs like this:-
s4= angel!Cas
s5= human!cas
s6= assassin/revolutionary/kin-slayer!cas (when he was bad he was very very bad)
s7= god!cas
IT IS LIKE HE GETS TO TRY ON ALL THESE DIFFERENT DRESSES/HATS ON SHOW *LOVES* I LOVE HOW HE IS UNEXPECTED/UNPREDICTABLE LIKE THIS
(On the one truly serious note, I will say that I was pissed that they demoted Misha Collins' position in Show. He brings in hella revenue/new blood/freshness to Show- moreso than Jared Padalecki I would say.)
Finally, I do want to know why no-one else in fandom is giving recognition to the fact that Castiel's plan at the end of S6 was strategically brilliant- I have so much unrepentant joy over that. He was never going to win in a straight fight with Raphael so he found a way to subvert the fight and make it on his own terms *admires Cas*
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I had no intention of making it sound ridonkulous -- it's simply the absolute truth that the entire conversation started with a picture of Misha in a sarong. No offense meant!
It's especially enticing when there are Cashaters wandering around being hilariously petty.
Liking or not liking a character is so subjective, but when I hear people saying that Castiel is boring or that he's dragging down the show -- I mean, that's their opinion so I have to accept it, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
I liked S6. I can feel your estimation of me fizzling away
You're dead to me.
But seriously, I agree with you that Castiel was one of the only high points in S6 -- but they sure frittered away a lot of time on go-nowhere plots before getting around to him.
I genuinely like that Cas went darkside
Frankly I would question how darkside he's gone. He isn't drinking demon blood or murdering innocents -- in fact, everything he did was in an attempt to save the world and had nothing to do with pride, ambition or greed. The assumption is that because he's now God or thinks he's God, he will be a tyrant, but we have yet to see how "dark" this new Castiel will be.
All I want to know is if all-powerful Cas will make Dean his favorite plaything.
*leers*
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I think I love you. I am prolly subconsciously kow-towing to fandom and saying 'darkside' to mitigate my 'unpopular opinions'. But, as you stated it, those are exactly my thoughts on Cas' moral compass. I would even go so far to say that this is why I am disgruntled by all this talk of redemption- I smell double standards because I saw no redemption for Sam's far more heinous crimes.
All I want to know is if all-powerful Cas will make Dean his favorite plaything.
*leers*
Stop it immediately!!!- where have you been all my life, Dean!girl, with these thoughts that run so accord to mine.
ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT NOBODY BETTER BE BLAMING CAS FOR WANTING THIS-
NOBODY BETTER BE BLAMING CAS FOR WANTING THAT AND HAVING IT BE HIS PRIME DIRECTIVE-
DEAN'S
ASSBUTT~*~BEAUTIFUL SOUL~*~ VIRGINITY (THE SHOW IN WHICH THE MENZ ARE THE VIRGINS LOLOLOLOL- I CANNOT BELIEVE NERD!SAM IS THE ONE WHO IS THE ANIMAL IN THE SACK HERE BUT WE MIGHT JUST SEE HOW MUCH OF A SAVAGE/PAGAN ANGEL/GOD CAS IS, HUR HUR)I HAVE HORRIFIC FANTASIES OF THE S7 PREMIERE STARTING OFF WITH CAS SOULFISTING DEAN- CAS WILL HAVE DEAN HE WILL HAVE DEAN LIKE A FEAST LIKE A FAMINE LIKE THE ONLY SOUL THAT EVER EVER EVER MATTERED- I SHOULD THINK A SUPERNATURAL ROMANCE WOULD STAND TO HAVE A LITTLE HORROR IN IT, AFTER ALL
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Now, now. We all know that when Sam does something wrong, it's not his fault.
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fyi, next time you taunt me like that-
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Now you've got me picturing Dean in some male version of Princess Leia's 'prisoner of Jabba the Hut' outfit, complete with the chain around his neck!
I feel so dirty. :)
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It should not surprise you that I was thinking THE EXACT SAME THING.