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Mar. 3rd, 2008 06:59 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
oselleSupernatural has been renewed for a fourth season...thank GOD we don't have to sweat it out until the upfronts this year.
OK, so that means they've got a whopping four episodes to make sense out of Sam's demonic destiny and Dean's hellish contract. Wonder how much of this they're going to let ride until fall.
I was roughing this out for myself today at lunch (yes, normal people watch internet porn on their lunch hour. I try to figure out Supernatural). Maybe you folks can help me out.
This is what we know for sure (correct me if I'm wrong about any of this):
1) Azazel (the Yellow-Eyed Demon) "recruited" Sam from infancy to lead some sort of unspecified demon war against humanity and/or an opposing horde of demons for control of Hell and/or earth.
2) Azazel is dead and Sam's now supposed to head up one side in this coming demon war.
3) On the other side is Lilith, the demon who's rising "in the West."
4) Unlike Azazel, Lilith was not recruiting any humans for her cause (this immediately gives Lilith the upper hand, if you ask me).
5) Demons both in Hell and on earth are lining up to serve either Sam or Lilith when the apocalyptic shit hits the fan.
6) Ruby is one of the demons lining up behind Sam.
7) Ruby initially claimed that she could save Dean, then later admitted that she could not.
8) Ruby is supposedly trying to get Sam ready to lead his demon horde. She wants to toughen him up.
9) We don't know who's holding Dean's contract, we only know it's some very high-ranking demon.
Okay, those are the facts. Now, here's what I'm speculating:
Lilith is definitely the one holding Dean's contract. I just can't see them introducing yet another "big bad" onto the show, not even Satan himself. It would just be too confusing. If it's going to be a Lilith/Sam showdown, what would Satan be doing anyway? Casually sitting back while some demon-chick and former law student duke it out for control? And we've twice had demons state that they don't "believe" in Satan, so I think the show has been setting us up for a Satanless Hell in which leadership is up for grabs.
If Lilith is holding Dean's contract, what's in it for her? Obviously, it would serve her purpose to have Dean out of the way -- provided she believes that Sam without Dean is a weakened enemy.
But I think Dean's death isn't even what's important to Lilith, it's just a means to an end. What matters is that he's in Hell. Assuming Lilith wields considerable power in Hell, once Dean's down there, she's basically got control of Sam. A running theme this season is that the brothers are each other's weakness. The Trickster flat-out said so to Sam. So Dean in Hell would be the perfect way to control Sam, either to get him to refuse the mantle of leadership or to come over to her side.
That all seems straightforward. But then I think about Ruby and her insistence that Sam needs to toughen up. In "Mystery Spot" we saw what Sam would really be like without Dean and he was anything but a weakened enemy. In fact, he was exactly what Ruby wants him to be -- a ruthless killer.
In "Jus in Bello," Dean stops Sam from sacrificing Nancy. Consider the difference in Sam from "Jus in Bello" to "Mystery Spot." "Mystery Spot" Sam doesn't even blink at the idea of draining some innocent person's blood. Yes, Sam is willing to sacrifice someone for Dean, but I got the impression that collateral damage in general isn't a big deal for this Sam. Dean isn't there to appeal to his conscience.
Now I'm starting to think that it might also be in Ruby's interest for Dean to be out of the picture. She did save Dean from the witches' curse but there could be two reasons for that. Maybe she just saw that as a way to win Sam's alliegiance. Or maybe she just hadn't figured out that Sam with Dean is never going to be the leader she wants him to be. If it's the latter, I think she's figured it out by the end of "Jus in Bello."
Is it in Ruby's interest for Dean to be in Hell? It does give Lilith that means of controlling Sam, which is bad for Ruby. But on the other hand, Dean in Hell could give Sam incentive to conquer Lilith and wrest control of Hell from her. If Dean's in Hell, why wouldn't Sam want to be the one running it? All of this plays right into Ruby's hands.
Of course the question is, how is Sam going to get Dean out of Hell? Unless the show goes with something completely lame like...Sam's been holding Dean's contract all along and doesn't even know it, Sam's going to have to get that contract away from Lilith. One way he can do that is to become what Ruby wants him to be. I think both Lilith and Ruby are foaming at the mouth for our poor Dean to be consigned to the darkest pit of Hades...and right now, it seems to me like Ruby stands to gain from that even more than Lilith.
To wrap up this endless post, I have to say something about one of the bigger complaints I see about Dean -- that the writers haven't given him any story or character arc of his own. It's always all about Sam.
If this is true, I don't really have a problem with it and I don't think it's any departure from the way Dean's been written all along. In Season One, Dean was all about finding his father and tracking down the Yellow-Eyed Demon (and dealing with Sam's mysterious psychic abilities). In Season Two, Dean was charged with trying to save Sam (or with killing him if he turned evil). Dean's never been concerned about himself and I don't think that woobifies him or makes him any less heroic. In fact, since when is being selfless not heroic?
But I think there is a story arc there, although it's not as extreme as Sam going from mild-mannered college student to apocalyptic demon king. In "Dream a Little Dream," we saw Dean claiming something that he really did want for himself for the first time. He doesn't want to go to Hell, he wants to live...he deserves to live. That's not a story arc? I think it is.
What's exciting to consider is that this change in Dean's character can ultimately save both brothers. If I'm right, then Lilith and Ruby stand to gain from Dean being in Hell. And If Dean's in Hell, Sam is lost. He either has to surrender to Lilith or assume the mantle of demonic leadership, essentially becoming a demon himself. The only thing that can save Sam is...Dean's salvation, which Dean himself finally considers worth fighting for.
OK, so that means they've got a whopping four episodes to make sense out of Sam's demonic destiny and Dean's hellish contract. Wonder how much of this they're going to let ride until fall.
I was roughing this out for myself today at lunch (yes, normal people watch internet porn on their lunch hour. I try to figure out Supernatural). Maybe you folks can help me out.
This is what we know for sure (correct me if I'm wrong about any of this):
1) Azazel (the Yellow-Eyed Demon) "recruited" Sam from infancy to lead some sort of unspecified demon war against humanity and/or an opposing horde of demons for control of Hell and/or earth.
2) Azazel is dead and Sam's now supposed to head up one side in this coming demon war.
3) On the other side is Lilith, the demon who's rising "in the West."
4) Unlike Azazel, Lilith was not recruiting any humans for her cause (this immediately gives Lilith the upper hand, if you ask me).
5) Demons both in Hell and on earth are lining up to serve either Sam or Lilith when the apocalyptic shit hits the fan.
6) Ruby is one of the demons lining up behind Sam.
7) Ruby initially claimed that she could save Dean, then later admitted that she could not.
8) Ruby is supposedly trying to get Sam ready to lead his demon horde. She wants to toughen him up.
9) We don't know who's holding Dean's contract, we only know it's some very high-ranking demon.
Okay, those are the facts. Now, here's what I'm speculating:
Lilith is definitely the one holding Dean's contract. I just can't see them introducing yet another "big bad" onto the show, not even Satan himself. It would just be too confusing. If it's going to be a Lilith/Sam showdown, what would Satan be doing anyway? Casually sitting back while some demon-chick and former law student duke it out for control? And we've twice had demons state that they don't "believe" in Satan, so I think the show has been setting us up for a Satanless Hell in which leadership is up for grabs.
If Lilith is holding Dean's contract, what's in it for her? Obviously, it would serve her purpose to have Dean out of the way -- provided she believes that Sam without Dean is a weakened enemy.
But I think Dean's death isn't even what's important to Lilith, it's just a means to an end. What matters is that he's in Hell. Assuming Lilith wields considerable power in Hell, once Dean's down there, she's basically got control of Sam. A running theme this season is that the brothers are each other's weakness. The Trickster flat-out said so to Sam. So Dean in Hell would be the perfect way to control Sam, either to get him to refuse the mantle of leadership or to come over to her side.
That all seems straightforward. But then I think about Ruby and her insistence that Sam needs to toughen up. In "Mystery Spot" we saw what Sam would really be like without Dean and he was anything but a weakened enemy. In fact, he was exactly what Ruby wants him to be -- a ruthless killer.
In "Jus in Bello," Dean stops Sam from sacrificing Nancy. Consider the difference in Sam from "Jus in Bello" to "Mystery Spot." "Mystery Spot" Sam doesn't even blink at the idea of draining some innocent person's blood. Yes, Sam is willing to sacrifice someone for Dean, but I got the impression that collateral damage in general isn't a big deal for this Sam. Dean isn't there to appeal to his conscience.
Now I'm starting to think that it might also be in Ruby's interest for Dean to be out of the picture. She did save Dean from the witches' curse but there could be two reasons for that. Maybe she just saw that as a way to win Sam's alliegiance. Or maybe she just hadn't figured out that Sam with Dean is never going to be the leader she wants him to be. If it's the latter, I think she's figured it out by the end of "Jus in Bello."
Is it in Ruby's interest for Dean to be in Hell? It does give Lilith that means of controlling Sam, which is bad for Ruby. But on the other hand, Dean in Hell could give Sam incentive to conquer Lilith and wrest control of Hell from her. If Dean's in Hell, why wouldn't Sam want to be the one running it? All of this plays right into Ruby's hands.
Of course the question is, how is Sam going to get Dean out of Hell? Unless the show goes with something completely lame like...Sam's been holding Dean's contract all along and doesn't even know it, Sam's going to have to get that contract away from Lilith. One way he can do that is to become what Ruby wants him to be. I think both Lilith and Ruby are foaming at the mouth for our poor Dean to be consigned to the darkest pit of Hades...and right now, it seems to me like Ruby stands to gain from that even more than Lilith.
To wrap up this endless post, I have to say something about one of the bigger complaints I see about Dean -- that the writers haven't given him any story or character arc of his own. It's always all about Sam.
If this is true, I don't really have a problem with it and I don't think it's any departure from the way Dean's been written all along. In Season One, Dean was all about finding his father and tracking down the Yellow-Eyed Demon (and dealing with Sam's mysterious psychic abilities). In Season Two, Dean was charged with trying to save Sam (or with killing him if he turned evil). Dean's never been concerned about himself and I don't think that woobifies him or makes him any less heroic. In fact, since when is being selfless not heroic?
But I think there is a story arc there, although it's not as extreme as Sam going from mild-mannered college student to apocalyptic demon king. In "Dream a Little Dream," we saw Dean claiming something that he really did want for himself for the first time. He doesn't want to go to Hell, he wants to live...he deserves to live. That's not a story arc? I think it is.
What's exciting to consider is that this change in Dean's character can ultimately save both brothers. If I'm right, then Lilith and Ruby stand to gain from Dean being in Hell. And If Dean's in Hell, Sam is lost. He either has to surrender to Lilith or assume the mantle of demonic leadership, essentially becoming a demon himself. The only thing that can save Sam is...Dean's salvation, which Dean himself finally considers worth fighting for.
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no subject
Date: 2008-03-05 12:42 am (UTC)I do think you’re right that Dean’s soul is important as a lever on Sam rather than in its own right, and I have always expected that he will die.
He probably will, but they're obviously going to have to bring him back. I just can't imagine how they're going to pull it off. Sure, John got out of Hell but that didn't make him live again. How are they not only going to get Dean out of Hell but also get him back in his deliciously photogenic, bowlegged body?
That’s not to say that I don’t want to see Dean with a decent story arc of his own
Maybe I'm easy to please on this issue but I think he has a story arc, just one that's a lot more subtle and internal than Sam's. Sam had a long way to go from Stanford to hunter to potential demon king -- where is there for Dean to go?
Honestly, I'm very curious about what sort of story arc people would like Dean to have. I've heard an awful lot of criticism about this, but no ideas. I think there are viewers who'd like to see Dean eventually embrace the domesticity that they think he secretly yearns after. Not only do I not want to see that but I think Dean would get bored off his ass after a few years of driving the kids to soccer practice.
Dean's a hunter, he's always been a hunter. Unless he leaves that life, his story will always remain essentially the same -- the only thing that can change is what's on the inside, and some viewers don't seem to think that's enough or are sick of "Dean's issues." I'm definitely not. Dean's issues (and of course, his deliciously photogenic, bowlegged body) are two of the big factors that keep me stuck on this show.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-05 06:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-03-06 12:05 am (UTC)I think you're right. Everyone's latched onto this "story arc" idea and it's not what they mean. They mean they want Dean to have a hero's journey of his own and I think that's unrealistic -- it would result in a watery, unfocused story for both of them.
But you know, I also feel like...how can I put this? Dean's already a hero. He long ago accepted the responsibility that came with his fate. His "destiny" isn't out there somewhere, he's living his destiny. A big part of the hero's journey involves the hero moving from a position of immaturity, apathy or reluctance to one of accepting whatever burden fate means him to bear. Dean did that when he was four years old. Sam's still getting there. So Dean doesn't need the journey. He's been there, done that.
I wonder how this story would have been viewed by earlier generations who weren't raised on a doctrine of personal freedom, the way we've been. I think a lot of the reason why people think Dean's character has been shortchanged is because they see him as a sort of passive doormat who's never stood up for himself, never reached out and grabbed what he wants out of life. I'll bet that a few generations ago, that wouldn't have been seen as such a negative quality.
At any rate, there seems to be an awful lot of debate about Dean's character, most of it conflicting (very often self-conflicting). I don't blame people for being protective of him (the threat of Bela was pretty stomach-turning) and I really despise it when they make him look ignorant or dense, something the writers unfortunately seem to have played up this season much more than in the past. So yeah, I understand a certain dissatisfaction with the way his character has been handled. But when people start saying that he's got "nothing to do" (or that he's selfish or a hypocrite or whatever), I'm not seeing it. He's a fucking HERO, man. Always has been.
And he's hot.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-06 08:32 am (UTC)It reminds me of a lot of the changes that they made to characters in LoTR when they brought it to the screen. It was as if PJ didn't think that the audience could buy into the idea that some people fight the good fight regardless of the cost to themselves because it's the right thing to do and it was what they'd been brought up to believe... and maybe he was correct.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-07 12:29 am (UTC)That's why I get nervous when I hear people clamoring for Dean to have an "arc." Remember how senseless it was to hear Aragorn say that "he never wanted" to be king? Or that painful scene at the end of TTT where Sam pep-rallies Frodo into sticking with the quest? I don't want Dean Winchester's character to be similarly sacrificed in service of some clumsy story arc.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-07 05:29 am (UTC)Sam can keep his Destiny, I just hope that Dean gets to carry on doing what he's doing because it's what he does.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-08 01:57 am (UTC)I just hope that Dean gets to carry on doing what he's doing because it's what he does.
*sniff*
Me too!!