More on 4:09

[oselle]

I haven't seen anyone else mention it yet, but when Sam told Dean that Ruby had "saved his life," did you think (as I did) that we'd find out she stopped Sam from committing suicide?

When Sam said that, and then in the next scene we see him drunkenly staggering to his decrepit room, I was absolutely certain he was planning to kill himself. Now, I'm sure there are viewers who would have hated this angle and would have found it completely OOC for Sam but it would have worked a whole lot better for me.

First of all, it would have shown us a truly despairing Sam, one who had given up all hope and decided that if he couldn't bring Dean back he could at least be where he was (assuming that suicides go to hell in SPNverse). Of course a rational-thinking Sam would have known this is the last thing that Dean would have wanted but here's the thing: suicidal people are not rational. Suicidal people do not see options. And seeing Sam so completely undone that he considered suicide his only course would, for me at least, have been very compelling.

Second, I think it would have been a much better re-introduction of Ruby as a mentor because she could have saved him by reminding him that this was exactly what his brother had died to prevent. Giving Sam a reason to live not just to kill Lilith but because this is what Dean would have wanted. As it is, that idea only comes up later, after Sam has already welcomed Ruby back and become her student and...boyfriend. As written, the idea of "what Dean would have wanted" is almost an afterthought.

Bleh, the more I think about this episode the more I loathe what they've done with Sam's reaction to Dean's death. That was the worst thing for me about this one -- not the necrophilia, not the Mary-Sueing of Ruby, not the logic gaps, but the wholly unacceptable way they've portrayed Sam as just moving on with his life while Dean's dead and writhing in hell. Is there a point at which Dean's going to wonder about that, too? Or is he also so dazzled by Ruby that it really doesn't matter to Dean that his brother mourned him for one lousy month and then apparently forgot all about him in favor of his shiny new life with a hot girlfriend and cool powers and an iPod in the Impala and all that?

Comments

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

Sometime earlier in the season, shit, I dunno when -- I posted something along the lines of how I keep wanting the show to give me a truly broken Sam, broken over Dean. And there was considerable discussion regarding how Sam is simply not Dean-like in his responses, blah blah, and I finally came to the conclusion that wanting Sam to be broken up over Dean -- in spite of what we saw in Mystery Spot -- just wasn't gonna happen.

This ep just rubbed ALL my fur the wrong way in this regard. It really does seem, looking back now at the early parts of this season with new knowledge, that Sam...did not entirely want Dean back. Now I think in a literal, "would you prefer to have your brother back and breathing than burning in Hell for all eternity" sort of way, Sam would absolutely 100% want Dean with him.

But there are layers, and I'm now convinced that the early funky sensation of "Man, Sam sure is low-key about Dean coming back," was pretty spot-on. I'm not saying he didn't -- only that he now had several problems to cope with, first and foremost of course, Ruby and his speshul powerz. Dean popping unexpectedly back into the picture did, beyond the shadow of a doubt, throw a wrench into the works for Sam.

Trouble is, now we can't forget that Sam just...did not grieve the way fanon and many, MANY stories this past summer suggested that he would/could. He grieved, of course, and a substantial case could be made, I guess, for saying that he threw himself into the powerz and training (and, it must be said, nookie) in order to distract himself from his grief, to set it aside until the job was done. (Hrmmm, the John comparisons, they do flow freely.)

But overall it left a dreadful taste in my mouth. The show will never address this issue because clearly it doesn't recognize that there's a problem. But I would give a lot to read a long-ass hard-hitting story about Dean coming to grips with the fact that Sam DID get on with things, that he found power and focus and pussy (the latter of which, Dean always said he should get) in Dean's absence. Sam got on with his life. Now -- only Sam could say if this is true. But by all accounts thus far, much of it is self-evident.

It sticks in the craw, it do.

[ghyste.livejournal.com]

I would have infinitely preferred it had Ruby literally saved Sam's life rather than just giving his dick a jump-start.

[muffaletta.livejournal.com]

I wish I knew what is going on in Kripke's mind to so fundamentally change the relationship that is the core of the show. And to do it in such a way that makes Sam look like a major dick to boot. I'm with you, Oselle. I never really "got" canon Sam and now I like him even less. I was so irritated with Sam last season when he seeemed more upset about Dean leaving poor Sam alone than Dean going to HELL. And now it seems, that maybe that impression on the writers' part was deliberate. I haven't gotten any vibes that Sam missed Dean as his brother and best friend. I feel more as if Sam just wanted an ego crutch and when he found an even better one, Sam really didn't want or need Dean back. Of course, Sam's glad that Dean's out of hell. It just doesn't seem as if Sam is glad that Dean is back with him.

About the moving on...most dying people say that. But I don't think they mean immediately. Even Dean seemed a little taken aback by Ruby's bra in "Lazarus."

And I would love,love, love to have Dean call Sam on his shit. Maybe then Sam would have more respect for Dean and not take him so much for granted. Dean leaving for awhile would be made of AWESOME. But no, I think Kripke will just have Dean passively accept everything and let it go. Sigh...

I'm at the point where I've almost given up on Dean and Sam and rather see Dean bonding with Castiel (which would also mean more scenes with the two pretties *g*). But I doubt Kripke will go there either. Double sigh...

[layne67.livejournal.com]

I don't how much we can take what Jared said about Sam into account but apparently he said this at the con

the whole Ruby thing was just a one-night, drunken, depressed, desperate type thing and that it was over,

From here