More on 4:09

[oselle]

I haven't seen anyone else mention it yet, but when Sam told Dean that Ruby had "saved his life," did you think (as I did) that we'd find out she stopped Sam from committing suicide?

When Sam said that, and then in the next scene we see him drunkenly staggering to his decrepit room, I was absolutely certain he was planning to kill himself. Now, I'm sure there are viewers who would have hated this angle and would have found it completely OOC for Sam but it would have worked a whole lot better for me.

First of all, it would have shown us a truly despairing Sam, one who had given up all hope and decided that if he couldn't bring Dean back he could at least be where he was (assuming that suicides go to hell in SPNverse). Of course a rational-thinking Sam would have known this is the last thing that Dean would have wanted but here's the thing: suicidal people are not rational. Suicidal people do not see options. And seeing Sam so completely undone that he considered suicide his only course would, for me at least, have been very compelling.

Second, I think it would have been a much better re-introduction of Ruby as a mentor because she could have saved him by reminding him that this was exactly what his brother had died to prevent. Giving Sam a reason to live not just to kill Lilith but because this is what Dean would have wanted. As it is, that idea only comes up later, after Sam has already welcomed Ruby back and become her student and...boyfriend. As written, the idea of "what Dean would have wanted" is almost an afterthought.

Bleh, the more I think about this episode the more I loathe what they've done with Sam's reaction to Dean's death. That was the worst thing for me about this one -- not the necrophilia, not the Mary-Sueing of Ruby, not the logic gaps, but the wholly unacceptable way they've portrayed Sam as just moving on with his life while Dean's dead and writhing in hell. Is there a point at which Dean's going to wonder about that, too? Or is he also so dazzled by Ruby that it really doesn't matter to Dean that his brother mourned him for one lousy month and then apparently forgot all about him in favor of his shiny new life with a hot girlfriend and cool powers and an iPod in the Impala and all that?

Comments

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

Maybe because Sam already went through three months of grieving for Dean in MS he dealt with it differently now?

I think a strong case could be made for it. He saw the worst it could be, and -- consciously or subconsciously -- changed his own responses when the real thing came to pass.

I can't stop thinking about the moment you mention, when Dean silently gets his bag out and starts to pack. It WAS melodramatic, in many ways -- but melodrama is basically drama, and poor Dean saw the writing on the wall there. Although this is out of character for Dean, who will ultimately accept anything Sam throws at him -- I wanted to see Dean snap, to see him simply LEAVE. He wouldn't, and didn't, and show is never going there, but that's ME inside there going, "DUDE. You're RIGHT. Go -- do something else for a while, get some space."

But I suspect that part of MY reaction was simply Sam's bald-faced lying about the whole Ruby/powerz issue. And this week's ep, even with all its revelations, did not comfort me -- Sam will not stop poking Dean about his memories of Hell, and I feel certain we will see more of that this coming week. Sam's moral code is so ambiguous -- it's okay for HIM to lie, it's okay for HIM to have secrets, but even with something as bedrock personal as one's existence in PERDITION -- if it's Dean's, it's also SAM'S. By Sam's measure. He'll pick at him until he gets those memories, because in some way, by Sam's determination, Dean doesn't get to KEEP that. He must share it with Sam, even when Sam has easily and quickly chosen earlier in the year not to do the same. Because what is Sam's is not, really, Dean's. It only works one way.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Sam will not stop poking Dean about his memories of Hell

That scene of them shouting in the car pissed me off because Sam is not asking Dean about hell with concern or caring, he's just bludgeoning Dean with it in a very childish "Oh yeah, well you're keeping secrets too!" sort of way.

Dean has made it clear that he can't talk about hell, at least not yet, and Sam yelling at him about it just makes Sam look cruel and selfish. He wants to know what happened so he's going to berate Dean into sharing this trauma with him regardless of how that will affect Dean.

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

Yup, Sam is extremely little-brother in that scene. Unfortunately he's an adult now, and it's getting harder to hide behind juvenile behavior. If a friend had been held in a terrible place and tortured for four months, I would find it beyond the pale to poke at them about their memories of it, a couple of months later. If they don't want to talk? I ain't gonna make 'em. They've been through enough already.

Sam, though... Well. He just sees things Dean has and says, "Mine." I think part of it is conditioning. But part of it, well. It's just Sam.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

But part of it, well. It's just Sam.

The big problem with this is that...I mean, look. I've always been a Deangirl but part of that is because I don't think the show has ever done a good job of "selling" me Sam's character. And now they're making it worse and I don't think the writers see that at all. If their intention is for us to see Sam as a selfish, callous brat then they're doing a great job but I can't imagine that's what they want.

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

If their intention is for us to see Sam as a selfish, callous brat then they're doing a great job but I can't imagine that's what they want.

No, I'm sure it's not. ::sigh:: I mean, I don't know what to say. I feel personally as if I'm inextricably caught between canon and fanon, between first season and fourth. Sam HAS changed, radically, and maybe there's some validity to the remarks that some people have a tougher time adjusting to those changes than others. I don't want Sam to be a fly in amber. But I do want to see him -- incorporate things, learn, and such instances as the insistence on Dean telling him about Hell suggest that for all he has encountered, gone through, and god knows that's a pile -- he hasn't really changed his perception that the world honestly DOES revolve around him.

I dunno, I wish I could be more reassuring. :-/

Re: yes, sam is a selfish person at heart...

[janissa11.livejournal.com]

dean let him be that way, protected and catered to him, sam grew up in the pampered expectation of being a prince, basically

When is Sam going to be responsible for his own decisions? I dunno, I think you are absolutely right about the way he was raised, no question. But I feel as if the show wants this to excuse him -- and it doesn't. It explains, it doesn't excuse. At some point Sam has to answer for his choices. I think Uriel got him to see that, and it scared the crap out of him, but it was so terribly necessary. Even Dean's eruption couldn't get Sam to acknowledge the fallacies inherent in his choices.

Man, it would be very interesting if Show took the Dallas route, wouldn't it? *g*