SPN 6:07: Family Matters

[oselle]

I have to get up early tomorrow, so I'm going to keep this short.

1. I have to assume that in SPNology, the "soul" is not the unique and brilliant spirit that is the essence of our existence as sentient beings, our connection to the infinite mystery of the universe, and indeed, that which was created in the very image of God, but is more like...that little frontal lobe of the brain that would have gotten sliced out during the old-tyme lobotomies. Because their concept of a soulless person seems to me like someone who's had a partial lobotomy or is just kind of numbed out on Thorazine or some other sort of CNS depressant.

2. I highly doubt that Dante ever wrote anything about vampires going to Purgatory.

3. Okay, so let me get this straight. Crowley pulled Gramps out of heaven because he knew that Gramps was the greatest-ever authority on all creepy-crawlies and so, was the one human being in all of history who could help him find Purgatory, which Crowley apparently wants to...colonize. Or build condominiums in. Or something. So Purgatory is like...the new Brooklyn. Crowley yanked Sam's soul out of Lucifer's spiderhole so that he could use said soul as leverage to keep Gramps in line. Gramps is going along with all this not just for Sam's soul but for some as-yet undisclosed motive, which I'd suspect has something to do with springing some loved one from Purgatory (my money's on Mary Winchester). Yeah??

4. When Castiel told Dean that his problems always come first? I don't think he was being sarcastic. He just loves him so very, very much.

Comments

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I don't think Sam's soul is in hell. Crowley has it. He said something about stuffing Sam's soul back in the box if Gramps didn't play nice.

I'm assuming that Deanna Campbell would be in heaven, not purgatory. Mary may be in purgatory for making a deal with Azazel. But this is SPNology so who knows what their concept of purgatory is, anyway? In Christianity it's a sort of rehab for souls that aren't quite lost enough to deserve hell. It's actually a hopeful place, in that souls in purgatory will eventually make it to heaven. But SPN seems to see it more as a sort of Island of Misfit Toys.

[andromakhe001.livejournal.com]

Thank you. That's what I thought too, that Sam's soul was not in Hell now, or at least that Crowley basically had it safe and sound, so to speak and it wasn't tied to a rack or stuck in the box with Luci and Mike.

With regards to Crowley being King of Hell while I agree the idea is ridiculous - I can buy that Crowley became top guy because he had been Lilith's right hand man. He already had considerable power, it was just a matter of making a few more moves probably which probably wasn't that difficult in the confusion.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

It says something about how I agree with the first 3 things here that I spent the entire ep thinking about the last one. If he was being sarcastic I think it wasn't about being angry at Dean as having learned that this is the type of thing you say to get people to help him because he knows that Dean can but doesn't know how to ask.

I mean, the guy's the size of a Chrysler building. Dean has to be reminded that he needs his buddy.

Basically, I'm totally hoping all these little Cas appearances is leading up to the obvious conclusion that the only reason Castiel has gotten re-involved with the world again is that a) Dean needed him and he can't say no and b) he really really needed to be around Dean.

Anyway, Gramps? Yeah, I'm thinking something with Mary Wincester, like getting her out of Purgatory. I sort of like that Crowley just pulled Sam out of the box along with Grandpa for his own silly reasons, and that he's got Sam's soul for collateral because it means Sam isn't just being more tortured than anyone in the history of the world especially Dean and that's why his soul is gone.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I just realized though...if Crowley has Sam's soul then what was the point of Sam's body coming back? So that Gramps would know that his grandson was walking around with no soul?

the only reason Castiel has gotten re-involved with the world again is that a) Dean needed him and he can't say no and b) he really really needed to be around Dean.

Of course. He loves him so very, very much. It's no wonder Cas didn't come around while Dean was shacking up with Lisa. Civil war my ass -- his heart was broken!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

And so...Crowley felt like the only thing he could hold over Gramps was that the grandson he'd never actually met had no soul? I guess it can work if Grandpa is obsessed with family. And once he's been pulled out of heaven he might as well help Sam. I've no idea how the two of them met, btw. Did they both wind up in a field? And then Gramps rounded up family members he'd also never met and they quickly became this really close family that didn't like Dean?

[twirlycurls.livejournal.com]

1. LOL, very true.

2. And I'm sure he's rolling over in his grave at the missed opportunity.

3. The whole idea that Crowley would need Gramps for anything is a little far-fetched, but perhaps there's a grand master plan lurking in the background.

4. Oh, indeed. He totally hit the pause button on the war in heaven to go deal with Dean's owies. He even took the time to clean Sam up at his boyfriend's request. Aww.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

He totally hit the pause button on the war in heaven to go deal with Dean's owies.

I think the occasional rendezvous with his mortal beloved gives Castiel some welcome R&R from heaven's civil war, and he always seems quite unhappy to leave his mortal beloved to go back to whatever's going on up there. He just loves him so very, very much.

[laurie-ky.livejournal.com]

I don't think Cas was being sarcastic, either. He came across to me as totally sincere.

I was thinking Mary was in Heaven, because we saw here there in Dean's Heaven, but I guess that doesn't mean she herself is actually there.

What I thought was going to be revealed was that Gramps was pulled out of Heaven by the other angel faction, which would explain why he's kind of contemptuous of Cas, calling him scrawny. Gramp's mission was to be an informant, questioning all these supernatural guys about those missing heavenly artifacts that both sides of the civil war are looking for. Crowley blindsided me, but I kind of like it. His evil businessman approach to annexing Purgatory does sound like him. How he got to be King of Hell will be interesting to hear. I'm guessing it was more along the lines of backstabbing alliances and blackmail than just might.

And there we go again with the 'Dean isn't really cut out to be a Hunter' vibes, with Dean having to stay back out of the main action with the Wimmen folk.

And that Alpha vamp wanted him. I could tell.

Cas playing doctor was cute, and I bet he got his doctor skills from watching Dr. Sexy. MD with Dean while hanging out in motel rooms with him.

Laurie

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I was thinking Mary was in Heaven, because we saw here there in Dean's Heaven, but I guess that doesn't mean she herself is actually there.

Yeah, I got the impression that everything they experienced in heaven was, as Dean put it, the Matrix. Ash was really in heaven because Ash interacted with them as themselves, in the present reality, but when Dean was in that kitchen with his mother, that was just virtual reality -- his life on rewind. Honestly, I hated that episode. That was the worst heaven I've ever seen in fiction. How could purgatory be any worse than THAT?

Gramp's mission was to be an informant, questioning all these supernatural guys about those missing heavenly artifacts that both sides of the civil war are looking for.

See, now THAT would have worked better for me than this purgatory business. I'm sorry but annexing purgatory doesn't make any sense to me, I'm just not buying into Crowley as King of Hell and if Gramps has other motivations for working with Crowley, then I don't even understand what Sam's doing in the story at all.

And really, Dean's a "reject" now? A reject from what, exactly? At least we figured out why Christian's such a douchebag, but what's every other Campbell's excuse?

[salty-catfish.livejournal.com]

lol@SPNology. The whole Crowley Reveal was seriously underwhelming. And I don't think Gramps deserved Dean's Angsty Family Theme there at the end. (Yes, that bothered me.)

Cas is so lost.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I agree about the Angsty Family Theme...especially since Gramps has thus far demonstrated that whatever he's pursuing in purgatory is more important to him than family. He let Christian be possessed, struck a deal with Crowley that entails holding Sam's soul hostage, and turns up his nose at his other grandson every chance he gets. Those are some family values right there.

Cas is lost IN LOVE. Head over heels.

[ann-tara.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't know what they're really going for in terms of "soul", but it sure does look like the brain cells are tied up in that part of a person's make-up.

4. When Castiel told Dean that his problems always come first? I don't think he was being sarcastic. He just loves him so very, very much.

That's the way I understood it. What?

No, seriously, Cas was trying for sarcasm, but his "profound bond" with Dean trumps all. Besides, boyfriends get bitchy with each other all the time.

What?!?

[oselle.livejournal.com]

What?!?

You hear those voices too? What!?!

[zatnikatel.livejournal.com]

Late to this party but really interesting to see everyone's thoughts. I really enjoyed the episode but then having slept on it I thought maybe there was less to it than met the eye. But now having thought about it some more, I think there might actually have been more to it than met the eye. I just have this gut feeling that this situation with Sam isn't as cut and dried as he would have Dean believe. There seemed to be a whole lot of eye-moting going on in this episode from Sam, Gramps and Castiel. I think it's possible all of them know more than they are letting on and that more will be revealed – hasn't Sera Gamble already been at pains to point out that all is not as it seems? I just really hope we don't find out that Cas has been playing Dean in any way, shape or form even if I won't be surprised to find out he might have withheld intel for strategic reasons…

[oselle.livejournal.com]

hasn't Sera Gamble already been at pains to point out that all is not as it seems?

Isn't someone always telling us that things are not what they seem? I certainly HOPE things aren't what they seem since right now things don't seem like anything remotely compelling or plausible.

I'm assuming this civil war in heaven is eventually going to get some play and be tied into the Crowley/Gramps/Purgatory storyline along with the angelic artifacts storyline, but we are coming close to the holidays and I suspect we're going to get cliffhung before Thanksgiving and then have to wait until February sweeps before any of this starts to make any sense, if indeed it ever does.

[oxer12.livejournal.com]

I thoroughly enjoyed this thread.

I agree with much that has been said here, especially that Cas loves Dean so very, very much. He totes wasn't being sarcastic about Dean's problems coming first! Duh.

I find the whole "soulless Sam" story to be kind of...yawn. That's because I really don't care about Sam anymore. And I laughed my ass off when my sister finally watched last week's episode and then called me to say, "Hell yeah, Sam got his FACE pounded but GOOD!!" :D

[ariadnes-string.livejournal.com]

I know it dates me, but the SPN version of a soul (or, more precisely, soul searching) reminded me of Cronenberg's Videodrome (the one where people pull old-fashioned VHS tapes out of their stomachs)--I think the soul is some kind of modem, or external hard drive--

And yes, Castiel loves Dean very, very much--and he pretends to resent it, but he loves it when Dean is bossy ;)

[layne67.livejournal.com]

When Castiel told Dean that his problems always come first? I don't think he was being sarcastic. He just loves him so very, very much.

YES!

Castiel will always, always be at Dean's beck and call. Always!

[mulder200.livejournal.com]

1. Yes! The whole explanation about Sam lacking his soul is very cringe worthy indeed.

3. I really don't understand this myself either. How on Earth did Crowley mass so much power? Of all the demons in Hell, he's the Ruler why exactly? This remains to be answered.

4. Hm. You know it's funny because the people on my friends' list thought it was sarcastic but I guess it's all in how you look at it. I mean it's clearly obvious that Cas loves Dean now if only he would return the favor.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

This remains to be answered.

Oh pooh, I can answer that: the writers really liked Crowley and he was popular with the audience so the writers, who never heard of "too much of a good thing" decided to expand his role and make him the new King of Hell. What I wonder is...is Lucifer supposed to have been the former King of Hell? They make it sound as if Lucifer getting locked up again left a void for Crowley to step into, but Lucifer's imprisonment is nothing new -- he was in the box for millenia before Sam let him out. He wasn't striding around hell ruling with an iron fist.

I mean it's clearly obvious that Cas loves Dean now if only he would return the favor.

I was being semi-facetious about Cas not being sarcastic...I sort of think he was trying to sound sarcastic but deep down he really meant it, either because he welcomes a chance to get away from whatever strife is going on in heaven, or because he does love Dean so very, very much. I kind of hope that all of Cas's angst over the regrettable things he has to do in his new job will eventually result in Dean having to help Cas out in some capacity, and then Cas can fall in love with him all over again.

[darkslayerfaith.livejournal.com]

I honesty think he sounded a little bitter but he will still do and go along with it cuz he just loves him that much.